Toyota hates EV's but decided to sell them in China....

[jimbo69ny]

I dont know anything about the source but I just found this online....

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/toyota-launching-cheap-electric-vehicle-sub-brand-in-china-87997.html

 

[4EVEREV]

Toyota's view on domestic EV production is smoke and mirrors IMO.

 

[evdrive]

Toyota's view on domestic EV production is smoke and mirrors IMO.

Definitely seems like the leadership of Toyata Japan is not as stupid as the EV haters at Toyota USA. They really need to skake things up at Toyota USA and fire or re-assign the EV haters. They will be better off in the long run.

 

[Incredulocious]

I dont know anything about the source but I just found this online....

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/toyota-launching-cheap-electric-vehicle-sub-brand-in-china-87997.html

RAV4 EV "highly unpopular" due to "limited performance and charging times"?? I had to repost a rebuttal to that! (And happily no registration required to do so.)

 

[Incredulocious]

I dont know anything about the source but I just found this online....

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/toyota-launching-cheap-electric-vehicle-sub-brand-in-china-87997.html

RAV4 EV "highly unpopular" due to "limited performance and charging times"?? I had to repost a rebuttal to that! (And happily no registration required to do so.)

Just looked again to see all the comments since yesterday: nice, well-informed and well-mannered "pile on" from all the owners here! Good job!

 

[4EVEREV]

I dont know anything about the source but I just found this online....

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/toyota-launching-cheap-electric-vehicle-sub-brand-in-china-87997.html

RAV4 EV "highly unpopular" due to "limited performance and charging times"?? I had to repost a rebuttal to that! (And happily no registration required to do so.)

Just looked again to see all the comments since yesterday: nice, well-informed and well-mannered "pile on" from all the owners here! Good job!

Like the one from a RAV owner saying the RAV has a 40kw charger :roll: Toyota does not hate EVs and it is ignorant to think Toyota USA operates independently. Toyota is not stupid and they will produce an EV when it makes sense for them to do so, all this anti-ev talk from them is simply more brilliant marketing that meets their immediate objectives. They leverage their hybrid sales for now and develop in the background as if they are out of the market, they did this with the Prius and dropped it on the world with a bang. Anyone that thinks Toyota has not been in EV development in the background also believes Toyota needed Tesla to do the RAV, its all serious tactical positioning, marketing and smoke and mirrors and its working brilliantly once again. We all know the company with the most experience in traction packs and EV drives needed Tesla to build their compliance and marketing vehicle :roll: Should it make sense for Toyota to do an EV you can bet they will have one ready to go and they won't be playing catch up. Folks, Mercedes had a FULL EV S class years before anyone even knew a LEAF EV was going to be made and they acted like an EV was something they hardly knew existed. Those that think the largest car maker in the world has its head in the sand better think again because their strategy is working perfectly like it has before. The RAV your are driving is a brilliant codependent masterpiece of Toyota and Tesla patting each other back and forth.

 

[Rav4EVoom]

Like the one from a RAV owner saying the RAV has a 40kw charger :roll: Toyota does not hate EVs and it is ignorant to think Toyota USA operates independently. Toyota is not stupid and they will produce an EV when it makes sense for them to do so, all this anti-ev talk from them is simply more brilliant marketing that meets their immediate objectives. They leverage their hybrid sales for now and develop in the background as if they are out of the market, they did this with the Prius and dropped it on the world with a bang. Anyone that thinks Toyota has not been in EV development in the background also believes Toyota needed Tesla to do the RAV, its all serious tactical positioning, marketing and smoke and mirrors and its working brilliantly once again. We all know the company with the most experience in traction packs and EV drives needed Tesla to build their compliance and marketing vehicle :roll: Should it make sense for Toyota to do an EV you can bet they will have one ready to go and they won't be playing catch up. Folks, Mercedes had a FULL EV S class years before anyone even knew a LEAF EV was going to be made and they acted like an EV was something they hardly knew existed. Those that think the largest car maker in the world has its head in the sand better think again because their strategy is working perfectly like it has before. The RAV your are driving is a brilliant codependent masterpiece of Toyota and Tesla patting each other back and forth.

Hi 4EVEREV,

I thought I read Rav4EV has max 10kw charger, can take advantage of full 40amp L2 EVSE, Did I remember it incorrectly?

I believe you are right about Toyota probably already has EV developed. But this makes it worse that Toyota won't do more to fix various minor/annoying issues Rav4EV owner encounter when they have the know how.

Indeed like the rest of the car manufacturers, they have the technology to provide much more efficient ICE vehicle probably many years ago, but they only launched them recently when they see a big portion of customer started to buy hybrid and EV. One day Toyota US may start to offer EV, but when that happens, I think it'll be a defensive move and it will likely mean they will lose a big chunk of their market share.

My guess is that Toyota doesn't want to support EV is because their SWOT analysis recommend against it. It's likely that unlike their success with hybrid vehicle, they have no timing nor technical advantage in EV business. it's also likely Toyota has no control over essential technology of EV such as battery or electric motor or some other crucial EV component that they can no longer have technical advantage. They probably prefer the world to buy fuel cell vehicle because they have owned or acquired substantial Patent for making Fuel cell vehicles?

It would be interesting to see what happens in a few years.

 

[smkettner]

I dont know anything about the source but I just found this online....

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/toyota-launching-cheap-electric-vehicle-sub-brand-in-china-87997.html

I thought most new gasoline registrations were restricted at least near the cities due to air pollution.
EVs otoh are exempt from the restrictions. I would rather sell something that can actually be registered and driven.

 

[miimura]

I dont know anything about the source but I just found this online....

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/toyota-launching-cheap-electric-vehicle-sub-brand-in-china-87997.html

I thought most new gasoline registrations were restricted at least near the cities due to air pollution.
EVs otoh are exempt from the restrictions. I would rather sell something that can actually be registered and driven.

I think pollution from new automobiles is easily addressed, just implement western emissions standards for new cars. What to do about the pollution from older vehicles with little or no emissions controls is another issue altogether. Also, the common household coal burning in stoves with little to no combustion optimization is mind boggling.

 

[4EVEREV]

Like the one from a RAV owner saying the RAV has a 40kw charger :roll: Toyota does not hate EVs and it is ignorant to think Toyota USA operates independently. Toyota is not stupid and they will produce an EV when it makes sense for them to do so, all this anti-ev talk from them is simply more brilliant marketing that meets their immediate objectives. They leverage their hybrid sales for now and develop in the background as if they are out of the market, they did this with the Prius and dropped it on the world with a bang. Anyone that thinks Toyota has not been in EV development in the background also believes Toyota needed Tesla to do the RAV, its all serious tactical positioning, marketing and smoke and mirrors and its working brilliantly once again. We all know the company with the most experience in traction packs and EV drives needed Tesla to build their compliance and marketing vehicle :roll: Should it make sense for Toyota to do an EV you can bet they will have one ready to go and they won't be playing catch up. Folks, Mercedes had a FULL EV S class years before anyone even knew a LEAF EV was going to be made and they acted like an EV was something they hardly knew existed. Those that think the largest car maker in the world has its head in the sand better think again because their strategy is working perfectly like it has before. The RAV your are driving is a brilliant codependent masterpiece of Toyota and Tesla patting each other back and forth.

Hi 4EVEREV,

I thought I read Rav4EV has max 10kw charger, can take advantage of full 40amp L2 EVSE, Did I remember it incorrectly?

I believe you are right about Toyota probably already has EV developed. But this makes it worse that Toyota won't do more to fix various minor/annoying issues Rav4EV owner encounter when they have the know how.

Indeed like the rest of the car manufacturers, they have the technology to provide much more efficient ICE vehicle probably many years ago, but they only launched them recently when they see a big portion of customer started to buy hybrid and EV. One day Toyota US may start to offer EV, but when that happens, I think it'll be a defensive move and it will likely mean they will lose a big chunk of their market share.

My guess is that Toyota doesn't want to support EV is because their SWOT analysis recommend against it. It's likely that unlike their success with hybrid vehicle, they have no timing nor technical advantage in EV business. it's also likely Toyota has no control over essential technology of EV such as battery or electric motor or some other crucial EV component that they can no longer have technical advantage. They probably prefer the world to buy fuel cell vehicle because they have owned or acquired substantial Patent for making Fuel cell vehicles?

It would be interesting to see what happens in a few years.

The RAV does have a 9.6kw plus charger that is 40A. It does NOT have a 40kw charger which was stated. In fact you can charge a RAV at 11kw at home with a simple transformer on 240V. Toyota is really good at smoke and mirrors and their history proves this, If making EVs now does not make sense or will in the future the best competitive tactic is to simply act like you will never build one. This is strategy that has proven very successful for them and many other manufacturers, luckily the Japanese can keep things quiet. Toyota would build any car they they can make money on or that makes strategic sense to offer. They are not stupid, when they US auto makers scoffed at federal funds for building hybrids Toyota built the Prius and look where they are now. They have plenty of EV R&D for sure. The RAV is a joke for Toyota, if they wanted to build a factory RAV EV now they could and with ZERO help from Tesla, the need for Tesla to ever be a part of this is laughable. Back then they were still modding other peoples technology and making bad drive systems that failed.

 

[Tadol]

As much as I wish Toyita execs were that far sighted and technically brilliant, I'm afraid that they have fallen into late corporate middle age, when they have alot of things working, they're making money, and are basically fat and comfortable -

Maybe there is some technical and patent obtaining advantage to pursuing hydrogen - it may end up being a energy source that has potential for alot more than cars. But right now they are falling behind as other companies offer electric vehicles, establishing their brands and technical abilities. Tesla has become THE name in electric vehicles, and a large part of their value may lay in their ability to add their name to anyones project. How many people who you talk to about your EV suddenly think much more of it after you mention that its primarly Tesla technology, not Toyota?

There's gonna be alot of interesting technologies and partnerships coming in the years ahead. I can see not long from now that modern cars will link to your personal tech interface (we call the phones,now ) to control and regulate everything from seat comfort to vehicle diagnostics to performance specs - and its gonna be smaller, faster, and hungrier companies that'll be on the cutting edge of this collaboration. And that doesn't seem to be Toyota -

I have a feeling that these 2 EVs will probably be the last 2 Toyotas I ever buy - which is kinda sad, since the only new cars we've ever bought (6 over the years) have all been Toyotas.

 

[Rav4EVoom]

The RAV does have a 9.6kw plus charger that is 40A. It does NOT have a 40kw charger which was stated. In fact you can charge a RAV at 11kw at home with a simple transformer on 240V.

Can you get 11kw charging with L2 EVSE supplying over 40Amp without using a transformer? I am thinking clipper creek HCS-60 that can supply up to 48Amp(constant). When you say using transformer, do you mean using transformer to increase the voltage to ~280V at 40Amp to get 11kw? Still trying to learn, thanks.

Toyota is really good at smoke and mirrors and their history proves this, If making EVs now does not make sense or will in the future the best competitive tactic is to simply act like you will never build one. This is strategy that has proven very successful for them and many other manufacturers, luckily the Japanese can keep things quiet. Toyota would build any car they they can make money on or that makes strategic sense to offer. They are not stupid, when they US auto makers scoffed at federal funds for building hybrids Toyota built the Prius and look where they are now. They have plenty of EV R&D for sure. The RAV is a joke for Toyota, if they wanted to build a factory RAV EV now they could and with ZERO help from Tesla, the need for Tesla to ever be a part of this is laughable. Back then they were still modding other peoples technology and making bad drive systems that failed.

This is entirely possible. Will see what Toyota do in the next few years.

 

[pchilds]

Don't buy a transformer thinking your RAV4 will charge at 11kW, the charger only does 10kW. You only gain 400W by boosting the voltage to 280 volts, at 280 volts the RAV4 uses 37 amps. I know, I can give you the link to get the transformer. By the way, the transformer burns 400-500 watts, boosting the voltage. My RAV4 uses 41.9kWh for a standard charge from turtle, that is about 2kWh more than every other RAV4.

What transformer did you use?

 

[Michael Bornstein]

Not only China. Toyota has developed a single passenger trike (3-wheel) with a 30 mile range called the I-Road. It is testing it in Tokyo and in Grenoble France. From the video, it appears to use a J-1772 for charging. Here is a link with some info (unfortunately not very much):

http://electricbikereport.com/toyota-i-road/

Note, this is not a bicycle. No pedal power. Totally electric.

 

[4EVEREV]

The RAV does have a 9.6kw plus charger that is 40A. It does NOT have a 40kw charger which was stated. In fact you can charge a RAV at 11kw at home with a simple transformer on 240V.

Can you get 11kw charging with L2 EVSE supplying over 40Amp without using a transformer? I am thinking clipper creek HCS-60 that can supply up to 48Amp(constant). When you say using transformer, do you mean using transformer to increase the voltage to ~280V at 40Amp to get 11kw? Still trying to learn, thanks.

Toyota is really good at smoke and mirrors and their history proves this, If making EVs now does not make sense or will in the future the best competitive tactic is to simply act like you will never build one. This is strategy that has proven very successful for them and many other manufacturers, luckily the Japanese can keep things quiet. Toyota would build any car they they can make money on or that makes strategic sense to offer. They are not stupid, when they US auto makers scoffed at federal funds for building hybrids Toyota built the Prius and look where they are now. They have plenty of EV R&D for sure. The RAV is a joke for Toyota, if they wanted to build a factory RAV EV now they could and with ZERO help from Tesla, the need for Tesla to ever be a part of this is laughable. Back then they were still modding other peoples technology and making bad drive systems that failed.

This is entirely possible. Will see what Toyota do in the next few years.

You need 277V @ 40A. It's about the higher voltage.

 

[Rav4EVoom]

You need 277V @ 40A. It's about the higher voltage.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[pchilds]

You need 277V @ 40A. It's about the higher voltage.

The RAV4 EV does not use 40 amps at 277 volts! 10kW is the chargers maximum power.

 

[Rav4EVoom]

Don't buy a transformer thinking your RAV4 will charge at 11kW, the charger only does 10kW. You only gain 400W by boosting the voltage to 280 volts, at 280 volts the RAV4 uses 37 amps. I know, I can give you the link to get the transformer. By the way, the transformer burns 400-500 watts, boosting the voltage. My RAV4 uses 41.9kWh for a standard charge from turtle, that is about 2kWh more than every other RAV4.

What transformer did you use?

I see, 10KW is max when boosting voltage... I have not tried to use a transfer yet.

By the way, when you say with standard charge from turtle you get 41.9kwh, do you mean boosting voltage while charging actually increase capacity? Does this imply boosting voltage for extended charge will also increase the capacity for an extended charge? Ultimately, is this good for your battery or does it matter?

 

[pchilds]

Don't buy a transformer thinking your RAV4 will charge at 11kW, the charger only does 10kW. You only gain 400W by boosting the voltage to 280 volts, at 280 volts the RAV4 uses 37 amps. I know, I can give you the link to get the transformer. By the way, the transformer burns 400-500 watts, boosting the voltage. My RAV4 uses 41.9kWh for a standard charge from turtle, that is about 2kWh more than every other RAV4.

What transformer did you use?

I see, 10KW is max when boosting voltage... I have not tried to use a transfer yet.

By the way, when you say with standard charge from turtle you get 41.9kwh, do you mean boosting voltage while charging actually increase capacity? Does this imply boosting voltage for extended charge will also increase the capacity for an extended charge? Ultimately, is this good for your battery or does it matter?

No it reduces efficiency, the boost transformer is ~95% efficiency, 10kW in 9.5kWh out. 41.9kWh from the wall * .95 = 39.8kWh into the RAV4 * .85 = 33.8kWh into the battery.

 

[Rav4EVoom]

No it reduces efficiency, the boost transformer is ~95% efficiency, 10kW in 9.5kWh out. 41.9kWh from the wall * .95 = 39.8kWh into the RAV4 * .85 = 33.8kWh into the battery.

I misunderstood what you meant. Thanks for your clarification. So, the efficiency suffers with Transformer voltage boost.