Time to Charge at less than 10kw?

[cashcow]

Hi Guys,

I read that the rav4 ev charges at a max of 10kw but that most stations do not give out that amount of power. So I was wondering just how long does it take for a rav4 ev to charge from say 10% to 80% and 20% to 80% in a public charging station? I usually go to a station that has a clippercreek charger rated 208/240v 30amps and I was wondering just how long would it take for the rav to charge up at a station like this one? Plus how do you guys charge your ravs at the max rated amount of 10kw? Special charger at home? or?

also the rav has almost twice the size of a bat pack in a leaf but doesn't give that much extra range. Is it just the size? The Weight? Or because it stands higher off the ground?


Thank you all!

 

[TonyWilliams]

I read that the rav4 ev charges at a max of 10kw but that most stations do not give out that amount of power. So I was wondering just how long does it take for a rav4 ev to charge from say 10% to 80% and 20% to 80% in a public charging station?

Assuming 208 volt / 30 amp public charging, that is 6.2kW AC "from the wall" and at 87.5% charger efficiency, about 5.4kW DC into the battery.

Therefore:

29.2kWh = a charge from 10% to 80% is 70% of 41.8kWh usable (when new at room temperature)

5.4 hours = 29.2kWh / 5.4kW DC

I usually go to a station that has a clippercreek charger rated 208/240v 30amps and I was wondering just how long would it take for the rav to charge up at a station like this one? Plus how do you guys charge your ravs at the max rated amount of 10kw? Special charger at home? or?

It's easy to get "10kW" at home.

The JESLA 40 amp (9.6kW) J1772 / Type 1 premium portable charging cable works at up to full power on every known J1772 equipped vehicle in the world.

JESLA was designed specifically with the unique 40 amp Tesla onboard charger that is in a Mercedes B-Class ED, Toyota RAV4 EV, and of course Tesla cars, but it also works equally fantastic with cars like the BMW i3, Fiat 500e, Chevy Volt, Kia Soul EV or Nissan LEAF. It is ultra flexible, light weight (only 8 pounds total!), and portable, PLUS it adjusts from 100 to 250 volts and 12 to 40 amps, automatically. You don't have to know anything about electricity and no installation required;

Just Plug-N-Charge(tm)!!!

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JESLA-is-THE-40-amp-J1772-portable-charging-solution-JESLA.htm

JELSA ships with NEMA 14-50 and NEMA 5-15 plugs, a padlock, plus a carrying bag. Additionally, you may want to buy the correct plug for your dryer (handy for visiting friends or relatives at their house) or for motel air conditioners:

...........................................VOLTS / AMPS.....kW
NEMA 5-15* ......Standard Outlet.. 120 V / 12 A...... 1.4 kW
NEMA 5-20 ...... Motel A/C .......... 120 V / 16A....... 1.9 kW
NEMA 10-30......Older Dryers........ 240 V / 24 A...... 5.8 kW
NEMA 14-30......Newer Dryers...... 240 V / 24 A...... 5.8 kW (out of stock)
NEMA 14-50*.....RV Parks ........... 240 V / 40 A...... 9.6 kW

also the rav has almost twice the size of a bat pack in a leaf but doesn't give that much extra range. Is it just the size? The Weight? Or because it stands higher off the ground

Miles Gained per Hour Charging @ 87.5% charger efficiency
70F Ambient temperature - hotter or colder will decrease miles gained

Amps/Volts -- Where ---- City Drive -----65mph
--------------------- 2.7 miles/kWh - 3.4 miles/kWh

12 / 120 ------- Any ------ 2.8 miles ------ 3.5 miles (stock cable supplied with car)
16 / 120 ------- Any ------ 3.8 miles ------ 4.7 miles (JESLA with NEMA 5-20)
12 / 240 ------ Home ----- 6.8 miles ------ 8.6 miles (EVSEupgrade.com mod to stock cable)
16 / 208 ------ Public ----- 7.5 miles ------ 9.5 miles (2013+ LEAF EVSEupgrade)
16 / 240 ------ Home ----- 8.9 miles ----- 11.2 miles (2013+ LEAF EVSEupgrade)
20 / 208 ------ Public ----- 9.4 miles ----- 11.9 miles (2013+ LEAF EVSEupgrade)
20 / 240 ------ Home ---- 11.0 miles ----- 13.9 miles (Clipper Creek LCS-25)
24 / 240 ------ Home ---- 13.6 miles ----- 17.7 miles (JESLA w/NEMA 14-30 or 10-30)
30 / 208 ------ Public ---- 14.8 miles ----- 18.7 miles (typical public J1772)
30 / 240 ------ Home ---- 17.1 miles ----- 21.6 miles (rare public J1772)
40 / 208 ------ Public ---- 18.5 miles ----- 23.4 miles (Tesla Roadster/Clipper Creek)
40 / 240 ------ Home ---- 22.7 miles ----- 28.5 miles (JESLA w/NEMA 14-50 or 6-50)

**********

NISSAN LEAF Range Chart (w/24kWh battery)

Rav4 EV Range Charts

100% Capacity

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1mybenqwoajun8/Rav4rangeChartV100.2.pdf?dl=0

90% Capacity (10% degradation)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3bcv212xxsfd2vr/Rav4rangeChartV90.2.pdf?dl=0

80% Capacity (20% degradation)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ddfjojy6d29q8zf/Rav4rangeChartV80.2.pdf?dl=0

70% Capacity (30% degradation)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/20y8b9xhdyps3ht/Rav4rangeChartV70.2.pdf?dl=0

When new:
41.8kWh usable- 100% SOC ("extended" charge)
35.0kWh usable- 83.0% SOC ("regular" charge)
1.0kWh unusable- 2.2% SOC (depleted)


*********

Here's what 50% looks like WHEN NEW, with 10 of 16 fuel bar segments illuminated (at 70% capacity / 30% degradation, it will be in the middle at 8 or 16 fuel bar segments). Disregard what the GOM says:

 

[cashcow]

Wow that was indepth! Thanks a bunch! Unfortunately I rent so I cannot install my own charging unit.... Would you happen to know of any other higher kw public units I could look into? Hopefully free. I am located in Los Angeles and travel between pasadena, burbank, rosemead, alhambra, el monte, los angeles, Glendale, Eagle Rock, and basically the areas around there. 5.4 hours to reach 80% seems too long and the public charging station I use has a max 4 hour parking limit. I have a Nissan Leaf, but it lacks space and thought a used 2014 RAV4 EV would be a nice upgrade. My daily commute can range from 35 to 40 average miles to as high as 70 or 80 miles and on really rare occassions I have done 100 miles, but these are rare. CHAdeMO seems like a nice conveniece sometimes on the leaf .

 

[michael]

The four hour limits generally are there to prevent people from needlessly camping on scarce charging spots. if you really need the charge, I have to believe they will cut you some slack unless there are others equally pressed for access.

If you can get even 110 V charging at home, it will help your situation a lot...you can get 10, 15, even 20 kWh overnight depending on your schedule.

 

[JasonA]

Alot of us live in the same "general" area as you and I can tell you there is hardly any 240v chargers around up in this area (I've made a spreadsheet from my Leaf/Brusa days because it mattered then!)

I can tell you that almost everywhere is 208 and sags to 201v on avg when loaded up. But a little tip since you travel in the area, Glendale Nissan has a bunch of L2's... the front units near the CHAdeMO are 208 (196v actually!) But there's one on the side where they park all the service cars, etc and it's against a big flat wall.. it's pushing 245v!

in Burbank, you can get 240 from the new street chargers they installed!

But it sounds like you need a JeDEmo on your Rav!

 

[fooljoe]

If you can get by charging your Leaf, then you'll be fine with the Rav, assuming your driving habits don't change. The Rav will suck a little more power (expect at least 1 mile/kWh less efficiency) due to its size/weight), but the extra time charging will probably be hardly noticeable. And if your Leaf has the 3.3 kW charger then the Rav will charge faster.

 

[davewill]

... also the rav has almost twice the size of a bat pack in a leaf but doesn't give that much extra range. Is it just the size? The Weight? Or because it stands higher off the ground? ...

All of the above. Adding more batteries never simply increases range by the amount of the added capacity. More batteries means more weight, and usually a bigger vehicle. This can change if the battery tech changes keep the weight and/or size the same. In the RAV vs. LEAF case, we're not even sticking to the same vehicle type or EV technology. There's still more extra weight because it's an SUV, and the battery is liquid cooled, plus more drag from the SUV form factor and the overall larger size. I used to get right around 4.0 mi/kWh in my LEAF, but come in at 3.1mi/kWh in the RAV.

 

[fooljoe]

Despite the smaller difference in EPA ratings (part of this is the EPA averages out normal - i.e. 80% - and extended charge modes for the Rav compared to the Leaf's 100% rating), in practice you really can get fully double a Leaf's range in a Rav. I have both, and in my Leaf I can barely do 60 miles even with a ~30 mph average speed, while in my Rav I can easily do 120 miles or more at moderate highway speeds. Part of this is I've found the Rav to be relatively better at highway speeds than the Leaf, and more importantly the Leaf batteries are crap and my 4 year old Leaf has 65% of its original capacity while the Rav hasn't had any noticeable degradation.

 

[cashcow]

Thanks for the input everybody My leaf has CHAdeMO and charges at 6kw. I believe it can go from 20 to 80 in 2 hours; at least it doesn't feel long to me. I actually can't get 110V charging at my APT it just isn't possible... I have asked. I pretty much will have to live off public charging. I have been to glendale nissan but almost always the spots are taken. I did not know about the other charger, but... is it in the repair shop?

Which chargers are the new ones located in burbank? Would you happen to know if they are free to charge or pay to charge?

It is great news to hear you can dish out more miles from the rav than the EPA stated, but how true is that for other people? My leaf is a 2013 and it is a 1 bar loser that means it just recently, after I got it used, lost 1 bar. I have not charged it to the top and ran it to the ground to see how many miles it gives me in total, but I think it might be about 60 to 70 but I have seen as high as 80 something ish (perhaps higher) on the guess meter it has on the right. The rav I want to get is an 2014 so it will be one year old well two next year and I am not sure if it will also be a soon to be one bar loser. Even then it should still give a few more miles.

I was just told the 2016 leaf will give 106 miles. That is just a few miles shy of the rav. I guess by then the only reason to switch is for extra size and not longer rmiles... What are you guy's thoughts on that?

btw how do you guys know at how much a charger charges your ev? Do you just look at the specs on the side of the charging unit?

 

[fromport]

btw how do you guys know at how much a charger charges your ev? Do you just look at the specs on the side of the charging unit?

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1253

&

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1445

 

[fooljoe]

My leaf is a 2013 and it is a 1 bar loser that means it just recently, after I got it used, lost 1 bar. I have not charged it to the top and ran it to the ground to see how many miles it gives me in total, but I think it might be about 60 to 70 but I have seen as high as 80 something ish (perhaps higher) on the guess meter it has on the right. The rav I want to get is an 2014 so it will be one year old well two next year and I am not sure if it will also be a soon to be one bar loser. Even then it should still give a few more miles.

A "1 bar loser" Leaf has already lost at least 15% of its as-new capacity. That means it'll probably give you at most 18 usable kWh right now, and at that rate of degradation you'll probably lose about 1.5 kWh per year.

The Rav on the other hand doesn't have capacity bars, and no Rav anywhere is known to have experienced capacity degradation (as far as we can tell) as bad as what would constitute the first bar loss in a Leaf. Reports suggest capacity degradation in the Model S, which uses the same battery as the Rav (just bigger) is similarly minimal. The Rav battery is simply better. Tesla chose better cells to start with, and used better engineering to put the thing together (with active temperature management making the most dramatic difference.)

I was just told the 2016 leaf will give 106 miles. That is just a few miles shy of the rav. I guess by then the only reason to switch is for extra size and not longer rmiles... What are you guy's thoughts on that?

The 2016 Leaf will have a 30 kWh pack as an option on the higher trims, so you're talking a lot more money over the base price for that 25% increase. And that's still puny compared to the Rav's ~45 kWh battery. I pay no attention to EPA range; look at kWh instead. If you've got more kWh, you can adjust your driving to get the most possible miles out of your pack, but if you've got less pack to start with there's not much you can do.

btw how do you guys know at how much a charger charges your ev? Do you just look at the specs on the side of the charging unit?

I use RavCharge when charging in public, but it's generally a safe bet to assume a public charging station is offering about 200V and 30A.

 

[rickrides]

IMHO there is no comparison between a LEAF and a RAV4 EV. The rav goes about 120 miles at 70 mph and the leaf goes about 60 miles at 60 mph. The rav holds much more (2 road bikes standing) and is much more fun to drive. Very little battery degradation with the rav.

BTW, like many on this forum, I had a LEAF and liked it. I love the Rav4!

 

[cashcow]

Thanks for that. Nice charge mods. I like the first one since its so colorful . I had forgotten the RAV4 EV had that tesla power train in it... I would not even have thought the quality was much higher over the nissan leaf. Is tesla right now THE highest quality EV producer at this time? I believe the last model to be out for the RAV4 EV was the 2014 model and no 2015? I'd rather get a 2015 used if there is one out there. Should I look at the manufactured date on the rav4 EV when looking? Driver door perhaps?

I think Nissan was a little sneaky with the way it displayed the battery %. I was shocked to find out the first bar was worth about 2 bars or more in reality. I like that the RAV has a bigger battery pack which holds more juice. At least going off EPA that is 29 miles extra. Leaf 24kw = 84 miles RAV4 41.8kw = 113 miles.

Is the power train on the RAV4 EV from the Tesla Roadster? I wish toyota had not gotten angry and stayed with Tesla. Perhaps even work up a deal to let RAVs charge at the Tesla super charger.... Though probably not possible since if it has the roadster power train the tech in it just wouldn't let it at least from what I read online.

Does the RAV4 EV come with tinted windows? Since you have a leaf and a rav4 ev can you let me know just how much extra space you think the rav4 ev has over the leaf? I'm in need of extra space and at least from the 'cargo room' specs it sounds like it has more than double the space inside but is only a few inches bigger than the leaf. Is it just arrangement inside? I saw the rav4 ev a while back, but I don't recall exactly just how spacious it is.

 

[cashcow]

IMHO there is no comparison between a LEAF and a RAV4 EV. The rav goes about 120 miles at 70 mph and the leaf goes about 60 miles at 60 mph. The rav holds much more (2 road bikes standing) and is much more fun to drive. Very little battery degradation with the rav.

BTW, like many on this forum, I had a LEAF and liked it. I love the Rav4!

Just a thought but how can the rav4 ev go 120 miles at 70 mph when EPA has it at 113??? If true I'd love that, but I am just not sure what to believe. I hear some people saying 55mph with the leaf can yield as high as 115 miles.... BTW for your bikes did you take out the rear seats? I don't think I could even pack one inside the leaf standing .

 

[smkettner]

Just a thought but how can the rav4 ev go 120 miles at 70 mph when EPA has it at 113??? If true I'd love that, but I am just not sure what to believe. I hear some people saying 55mph with the leaf can yield as high as 115 miles.... BTW for your bikes did you take out the rear seats? I don't think I could even pack one inside the leaf standing .

EPA rating must be with normal 80% charge not the extended range charge.
The range on the RAV4-EV is most definitely real. The efficiency mix seems different from LEAF where the RAV4-EV seems to get relatively better economy on the highway vs LEAF that drops off quickly with more speed.

Best part is when you drive 20 miles In the RAV4-EV the DTE drops by 18 or 20 miles. LEAF you drive 20 miles and DTE drops 22 to 25 miles. That is my experience anyway.

 

[cashcow]

I actually did not know EPA was 80% I guess that charging up to 100% has its merits. Though when I tried to do that with my leaf it stopped at 98% then unless I am wront it took one hour to get 1% then another hour to get the last 1%. That was a pretty long time waiting! I could be wrong because I was practically falling asleep on my car by that time, but it sure felt like it took that long. Would you happen to know if the RAV4 EV was made from parts of the roadster or the model S? The Rav is practically my only affordable choice for extra space so I will have to really consider getting one. Though since it will take a while to charge the rav I will likely have to camp out over night at a public charging station to get it up to full for the next day . At least on the days I do a lot of miles. I huess that right now getting a rav4 ev is the cheapest way to get access to tesla level EV. I'm still a little puzzled the rav does better a higher speed than the leaf. It would seem the rav is less aerodynamic than the leaf. Is it just the difference in quality of the power train?

 

[user 340]

The facts about the EPA range rating are pretty well known:

"standard" (~83%) charge: 92 mi
"extended" (100%) charge: 113 mi
Combined EPA value: 103 mi

The above values are documented on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV) and doubtlessly on this forum as well. Yes, you will get much better range than this in steady highway driving. The RAV4EV has a lot of mass, so it takes a lot of energy to accelerate from low speeds.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Just a thought but how can the rav4 ev go 120 miles at 70 mph when EPA has it at 113??? If true I'd love that, but I am just not sure what to believe. I hear some people saying 55mph with the leaf can yield as high as 115 miles.... BTW for your bikes did you take out the rear seats? I don't think I could even pack one inside the leaf standing .

I put a range chart for both the LEAF and the RAV4 EV in my first post in this thread. Why not actually compare that data, instead of looking for anecdotes of range?

There are no Roadster parts in the production RAV4 EV, but the prototypes had lots of Roadster bits, including two of the 18kWh battery packs from the Smart ED. The 2012-2014 RAV4 EV uses Tesla Model S drivetrain parts.

There is no 2015 RAV4 EV... its last production was August 29, 2014. It won't be built again.

You don't have to be stranded at slow charging stations. We offer high speed charging for the RAV4 EV:

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JdeMo-for-Rav4EV-JdeMORav4.htm

 

[4EVEREV]

IMHO there is no comparison between a LEAF and a RAV4 EV. The rav goes about 120 miles at 70 mph and the leaf goes about 60 miles at 60 mph. The rav holds much more (2 road bikes standing) and is much more fun to drive. Very little battery degradation with the rav.

BTW, like many on this forum, I had a LEAF and liked it. I love the Rav4!

My 2011 LEAF went about 75-80 miles at 60 MPH, never 60.

 

[rickrides]

For the bikes, the rear setbacks are folded forward, the rear well cover is removed and fork mounts are mounted on a 1"x6" board that sits on the lip partway down in the well. The seat on my bike almost touches the headliner and the chainring almost touches the floor. If you're taller than me (5-9) you would have to lower the seat.

I just mapped a drive I took in the winter of 2011 with my LEAF that started in the afternoon and ended at night. Danville to Livermore to Pleasant Hill to Danville 61.5 miles and I barely made it home. I used the heater sparingly for defrosting. Yes in perfect conditions at 60 mph you can go more than 60 miles but the Rav goes much farther and you don't have to baby it.