Solution to avoid range anxiety - Carry a generator

[Dsinned]

Has anybody ever considered just renting or buying a portable AC generator (Costco sells them for about $600, although cheaper models are available) and hauling it around in the back of your RAV4 EV when you have to drive anywhere close to your maximum range? There are a few times a year when I would like to drive somewhere over a couple hundred miles or more round trip, but cannot count on having access to charging stations in-route. With slower paced driving on the freeways, proper route planning and taking an occasional detour to any available charging station would avoid the need for ever using the portable gas powered generator, or even needing it in the first place. But, there are a lot of places where charging in the real world is just not possible.

However, the portable generator would only be used for recharging as an "emergency" backup, when there is insufficient range to make it to the next L2 EVSE charging station. It could also be used while stopping overnight at a motel or on a camping trip when there is no available 120Vac outlet nearby where the car is parked.

For about twice as much money, one could buy (or perhaps rent) a portable gas generator with a continuous rated output of 8,000 watts with a 240Vac outlet built-in. Of course, that would incur a significant weight penalty in the cargo bay, but then you could also haul around your own "portable" L2 EVSE in addition to the generator and speed up the how long it takes to recharge on a road trip.

Kind of a crazy idea, but I do not have another car suitable for road trips or an occasional camping trip out of town.

Comments?

 

[miimura]

If you do this, make sure it's in inverter generator. Otherwise, the Tesla charger will likely complain about the power quality. Of course you will have to either match the generator output to your EVSE or get an adjustable EVSE so it can match the generator.

 

[fooljoe]

There are very few times when I'd go somewhere far enough to need this that I wouldn't also have the cargo bay already stuffed. A trailer-mounted generator might be kind of cool though, particularly if combined with a high-power DC charger connected directly to the battery so that you could charge as you drive and make real long-distance road trips.

This idea has been discussed extensively and even implemented for the Leaf (read up in the mynissanleaf forum) and going way back to the 1st generation Rav4-EV, but it's still pretty far from being a cost-effective solution. For now, I'd just take trips within a ~120 mile radius and make sure that you choose a destination that has some sort of power supply available. It's pretty rare to go somewhere where there's absolutely no power of any kind so that you'd actually need a generator (remote wilderness camping I guess?)

 

[smkettner]

NO, I would not consider hauling a generator to extend the range of my RAV4-EV.
I would sooner rent a gas vehicle or plan the trip around existing charging stations including a campground with electric power.

 

[4EVEREV]

No matter how you slice it a generator is an extremely poor choice.

 

[Dsinned]

Thanks for all your comments. I am only "10%" seriously considering this mainly because of the expense for something that would not be intended to ever be used.

I would like to take a trip from San Jose to Yosemite which is about 135 miles one way. I would be traveling with my wife, and two small dogs (which is the reason renting an ICE car is out of the question). Yosemite is one of my favorite places on an overnight weekend road trip, and I don't believe there are any public places to charge inside the park. Heck, there are only but a few gas stations especially up in the "high" country. I could probably find somewhere in-route to charge, or by spending the night in a motel. I have a 100' extension cord in the trunk compartment for just such an occasion.

The problem is by the next morning, my car would only be partially recharged with barely enough additional range to drive another 25 miles! If I got a portable gas generator, I would opt for a 4,000W unit with a 240V outlet built-in and take my "plug-in" 32A L2 EVSE with me. I would have to make sure whichever make/model generator I got would be small and lightweight enough so that I can lift it in and out of my RAV4. 3500 to 4000W rated output power is failrly common, and budget minded size. Some have a built-in 240V outlet and weigh in right around 100 lbs.

Anybody know of any portable generator rental companies operating in the South SF Bay Area?

 

[miimura]

There is a single Clipper Creek charging station in Yosemite Valley. It is on PlugShare. Clearly there needs to be more installed. People on the TeslaMotorsClub forum have been pushing the concessions vendor to add more but haven't gotten anywhere.

 

[smkettner]

I would like to take a trip from San Jose to Yosemite which is about 135 miles one way.

Where do you stay overnight? I thought there were a few hard side cabins that have electric power. May need to stay a few days for 48+ hour charging. No need for a car to get around the valley.
If you could park on that CC overnight you are golden.

If a LEAF can make it a Tesla should be easy:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9965
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=5148

 

[TeCKis300]

I can see it now. Running a loud, fuming, and obnoxious generator for an extended period in a pristine Yosemite parking lot to charge an EV. What about the fuel cans you'll need to carry to power the generator? All very counterproductive IMO.

 

[Dsinned]

A portable gas generator has its own fuel tank; some can hold as much as 6+ gallons. There are plenty of gas stations along the way both inside and outside the park to refill the generator's tank as needed. I probably will be staying at a motel close to the entrance of the park, NOT inside Yosemite Valley. Places to stay inside the park usually require reservations a year in advance. There are several nice motels along the river near the entrance to Yosemite. However, I don't think any of those would have a L2 EVSE for motel guests, but I haven't actually checked.

Fortunately, there are a couple of steel anchors in the back of a RAV4 to tie down a heavy generator to keep it from moving around or breaking loose under hard braking. That would be an important safety consideration. There would be more than enough space for it in the cargo area with the rear seats folded down. For added safetly it should be able to fit quite nicely in the sunken floor cargo hold compartment. My dogs will be in back too, so I must be able to keep everyone safe while traveling.

If a portable generator where ever used, I would still want to be within earshot to be able to hear it running while charging the car. If it suddenly stops running or runs out of gas, I would want to hear that too. Also, it has to be near enough that I can keep an eye out for would-be thieves in the area. :mrgreen:

 

[fooljoe]

Call around to the various motels and see if any have 120v outlets accessible from parking areas; if you stay a couple days and don't need to drive much 120v might suffice. Some might even have air conditioners plugged into NEMA 6-20 outlets which will let you charge 2-3x as fast if you can park just outside your room and run an extension cord to the car. Or try staying at an RV park in the area with 50 amp charging. Yet another option would be getting a vacation rental house or cabin where you can most likely get at least 240v @ 12a by using a quick240-type adapter. Hauling a huge generator just doesn't seem fun.

 

[yblaser]

Just rent a small SUV. Most rental places don't have a problem with pets; they just want you to clean the pet hair up. Rent it, take your trip, and have a car wash do an interior cleaning. In the end it's going to be cheaper and easier than trying to use a generator to change your RAV4.

 

[smkettner]

There is an RV park along there also. Should have 50a 240v service for charging.

http://www.yosemitepinesrv.com

 

[TonyWilliams]

The generator issue has been beat silly on the LEAF forum. Here's my random thoughts:

1) You need an "inverter" generator, not a cheap generator. http://www.yamahaef2000is.com/conventional_generator_vs_inverter_generator.html

2) You can hook two sine wave generators together (lighter to lift than one heavy single generator). Honda and Yamaha both offer this with a special interconnect cable.

3) Many parks don't allow generators to run at night.

4) You need to "spoof" the generator to think everything is properly grounded. This is done quite simply by building a plug that you can put into any port of the generator that has two 1/2 watt / 100k ohm resistors between each power pin and the ground pin.

5) You don't need to have a noisy generator to "hear it" any more than you need noise when your car is plugged in. Instead, if you want a notification of end-of-charge, set up Entunes to send you a text message. It's much quieter. NOBODY wants to hear a noisy generator droning along for hours.

6) You might consider not keeping gasoline inside the car... it will stink and there are fire dangers. I recommend one of the many trailer hitch racks that you can put the generator in externally.

7) You will need a portable charge cable to plug into the generator and your car. Make sure you do not exceed the CONTINUOUS DUTY CYCLE rating of the generator. If you're using a JESLA, here are the amps amp limits with the appropriate plug. For most generators, you will need L6-20, L6-30, L14-20 or an L14-30 adaptor to the appropriate amp JESLA plug:

............................................VOLTS / AMPS.......kW
NEMA 5-15 .......Standard Outlet.. 120 V / 12 A...... 1.4 kW
NEMA 5-20 ...... Motel air conditioner 120/16A....... 1.9 kW
NEMA 10-30......Older Dryers...... 240 V / 24 A...... 5.8 kW
NEMA 14-30......Newer Dryers..... 240 V / 24 A...... 5.8 kW
NEMA 6-50 .......Welding Equip.... 240 V / 40 A...... 9.6 kW
NEMA 14-50......RVs and Camps.. 240 V / 40 A...... 9.6 kW


8) I would probably use one of these for 3 miles added per hour charging. You can use the original 120 volt / 12 amp charge cable that Toyota provided:


http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/outdoor/products/modelspecs/626/0/specs.aspx

MSRP* $1,099
Type Inverter
Maximum AC Output 2000 watts
Rated AC Output 1600 watts
Rated / Maximum AC Current 13.3 / 16.7 amps @ 120V
Engine OHV, air-cooled, single cylinder, 4-stroke
Displacement 79cc
Overall Length 19.3 in
Overall Width 11.0 in
Overall Height 17.9 in
Dry Weight 44.1 lb
Fuel Tank Capacity 1.1 gallons
Continuous Operation at 1/4 Rated Load 10.5 hrs
Noise Level 51.5 - 61 dBA
Warranty 3 Years Limited Warranty

9) California parks will require CARB approved generators AND CARB approved gasoline containers. Also, it may require a spark arrestor.

EPA & CARB Emission Engine Durability Rating — Yamaha generators have the longest emission engine durability ratings issued by the Environmental Protection Agency and the California Air Resources Board, 50 state legal — Meets emmision regulations, including CARB

10) If you want to pull 24 amps at 240 volt (you will need a JESLA or similar to do this), then I recommend this one. Again, if you're using a JESLA, you will need an L6-30 or L14-30 adaptor to the appropriate amp JESLA plug (NEMA 14-30):

MSRP* $4,099
Type Brushless, Inverter
Maximum AC Output 6300 watts
Rated AC Output 5500 watts
Rated / Maximum AC Current 45.8 amps /52.5 amps @120V; 22.9 amps/26.3 amps @ 240V
Engine OHV, Air-Cooled, Four-Stroke, Single Cylinder
Displacement 357cc
Ignition System TCI: Transistor Controlled Ignition
Starting System Electric start w/automatic choke (optional wireless remote)
Overall Length 30.7 in
Overall Width 24.3 in
Overall Height 27.2 in
Dry Weight 200 lb
Fuel Tank Capacity 4.5 gal
Continuous Operation at 1/4 Rated Load 13.3 hr
Noise Level 58 ~ 64 dBA
Warranty 3 Years Limited Warranty

 

[buickanddeere]

MODERATOR EDIT- First warning for personal attacks. This is not the Spark EV forum where you can say and do anything you wish.


You are going to bolt a generator into the vehicle then running it inside the vehicle with the windows open ?
The risk explosion from gasoline fumes, oil slobber onto the carpet, hot exhaust and toxic CO in the exhaust. I don't imagine the typical EV owner being able to solo slug a 10Kw generator from inside the vehicle out onto the ground and back into the vehicle. Even a 7500watt Champion clone of a Honda weighs 231lbs dry and another 45 lbs with fuel and oil.
It's trailer time. A BEV vehicle is what is . There are EV's out there with built in range extender gen sets.

 

[Dsinned]

Thanks again for all the feedback, especially from Tony. I have been doing a bit of online research and this one - click on link below - is the clear winner so far.

This unit provides a lot of B4B at only $899 (with free shipping). Powerland is a California company, and they are sold by SEARS, so the design and construction quality/safety should be good. The warranty could be better, but one year on parts is fairly standard on most other generators in this power class. It is rated at 8000W continuous and THD <5% which seems more than acceptable for all possible applications, including using my Leviton 7.7kW L2 EVSE with a standard NEMA 6-50P plug-in pigtail. Noise spec'd to be 72dB (at 22') with a CARB approved exhaust and spark arrestor. it comes with solid rubber wheels and retractable handles, so should be able to get in and out of the cargo bay with a sturdy ramp and a little help. With 8.3 gallon tank, this unit should be able to completely recharge my RAV4 EV in about 5.5 hours before running out of fuel for 100+ miles in additional range.


http://www.powerlandonline.com/powe...able-gas-generator-16-hp-with-electric-start/

 

[4EVEREV]

Thanks again for all the feedback, especially from Tony. I have been doing a bit of online research and this one - click on link below - is the clear winner so far.

This unit provides a lot of B4B at only $899 (with free shipping). Powerland is a California company, and they are sold by SEARS, so the design and construction quality/safety should be good. The warranty could be better, but one year on parts is fairly standard on most other generators in this power class. It is rated at 8000W continuous and THD <5% which seems more than acceptable for all possible applications, including using my Leviton 7.7kW L2 EVSE with a standard NEMA 6-50P plug-in pigtail. Noise spec'd to be 72dB (at 22') with a CARB approved exhaust and spark arrestor. it comes with solid rubber wheels and retractable handles, so should be able to get in and out of the cargo bay with a sturdy ramp and a little help. With 8.3 gallon tank, this unit should be able to completely recharge my RAV4 EV in about 5.5 hours before running out of fuel for 100+ miles in additional range.


http://www.powerlandonline.com/powe...able-gas-generator-16-hp-with-electric-start/

I know you don't want to hear this but if you ask anyone with extensive EV experience and common sense they will tell you not to buy that cheap generator and to rent a car. Take the advice of others FORGET USING A GENERATOR, you will thank yourself. As said before this is a topic that has truly been beaten to death on other forums. You don't want that piece of junk in your EV and even if it were a decent genset you don't want to do this.

That Chinese made generator is not what you should use on your EV. There is a reason a 2 KW Honda EU2001 is $1000 and that 8 KW generator is $899.

This is what I suggest if you can't set up normal charging, seriously

http://www.carrentals.com/

 

[TonyWilliams]

I know you don't want to hear this but if you ask anyone with extensive EV experience and common sense they will tell you not to buy that cheap generator and to rent a car.

That must be my problem... after three trips in an EV between Mexico and Canada, I somehow managed to do all three without using or carrying a generator. Not even once. I don't even own a generator.

That cheap generator is a waste of cash. I don't even know if it would physically work with the charger. I recommend taking the Rav4, particularly if it's only 200 miles each way. Stop at an RV park and charge at 40 amps and 240 volts. If you're retired, you've got the time.

Screw oil cars :ugeek:

 

[buickanddeere]

There is one brand of Chinese Clone that does actual pass stringent quality control , it's the Champion brand. So it's either the HD 7000/7200/7500W version that passes California emissions.
Or the 120V output 1600/2000W inverter Champion. I have some experience with them in off grid applications. Like any boxed in sound proofed inverter generator it isn't handy to service but it sips fuel and purrs quietly for hours.

On the topic of generators. If you own a fridge or freezer you should also own a standby generator. Utility power outages have occurred in the past and will occur again in the future. Better to have a generator instead of the basement flooding, icecream melting, pipes freezing etc.

 

[Dsinned]

Where I live, AC power outages are quite rare; at most, maybe once or twice a year and rather short lived at that.

I just spent the afternoon looking for public charging station in-route to Yosemite using the ChargePoint website locator. Virtually none! The one way distance by the most direct route, to an in-route place to charge, would be right around 130 miles. Going there without stopping someplace for a quick charge further out (due to the fact that the last leg is climb of several thousand feet in elevation) would probably be bit too risky!

Another viable alternative, although it would be a bit cramped, I can always drive my VOLT. :mrgreen: