Solar Panel Options (Colorado)

[pchilds]

Is it sweet? Sorry but why does no one ever mention the 'new' monthly cost of financing or leasing solar panels. Its not like you are not paying for energy all of a sudden. You just shifted your cost from the utility company to a bank or the solar company.

So whats your monthly payment (or amortized cost over 10/20 years) for solar and how much higher or lower is it than your previous utility bill?

I did the math and never got solar because it never made financial sense.

At an installed cost of $3.00 watt, and an electricity cost of $.14 kWh, payback would be 11 years with no tax credits, the federal tax credit brings it down to less than 8 years, any state tax credit would bring it down more. If you go Time of Use net metering you get paid 2-5 times as much for the solar kWhs generated as the nighttime use, this brings the payback to 2 to 5 years. SCE just raised their on peak tier 2 to $.47 kWh, I pay $.09 kWh in super off peak(no tiers) 5.22 kWhs to one.

 

[Dsinned]

Dsinned and Pchilds,

Could you give both the before and after tax credits rough costs for 6.8 KW ave install (and in my case 3.4 KW) ?
I'm not sure if the roughly $3-$3.5 per KW costs you project also apply to lower output 3.x KW projects.

Also, do you know what restrictions apply on tax credits if one does a self install?

Thanks,
Kevo

My cost per WATT (not kW!) was ~$2.09/W, and I initially had a 3.5kW system professionally installed. I later added an additional 750W (3 more 250W panels, paired with 3 Microinverters, plus additional wiring) to the same system with some extra (although optional) meter monitoring customization, which raised my cost to $3.06/W, so there generally will be a hit for a smaller size system.

I'm not a tax expert, but to best of my knowledge, there is no restrictions on the tax credit UNLESS you tax liability is less than 30% of the cost of your solar system (installed). If you pay your tax is less than that, then you will not get the full tax credit. However, (again, I am not a tax expert), I believe the credit can be carried forward from year to year if you cannot claim the entire amount in one year. It does not matter if you self install, however, if you don't use a professional installer, you cannot claim "your" labor as part of the tax deduction.

 

[Dsinned]

Is it sweet? Sorry but why does no one ever mention the 'new' monthly cost of financing or leasing solar panels. Its not like you are not paying for energy all of a sudden. You just shifted your cost from the utility company to a bank or the solar company.

So whats your monthly payment (or amortized cost over 10/20 years) for solar and how much higher or lower is it than your previous utility bill?

I did the math and never got solar because it never made financial sense.

This is almost the same argument why some people feel the cost of buying an electric car is a bad deal in terms of how much the car will cost vs. how much the cost for gasoline will be saved over the life of the vehicle, but I sure feel better about myself knowing I am not polluting the atmosphere by the energy I use at home and to "refuel" my vehicles.

 

[pchilds]

Check out this thread on MyNissanLEAF forum. JasonA just put in a 8.11kW system, all made in USA for $2.33 watt.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtop...d&sid=698c43289372badae0824a21f4365460#unread

 

[mhkp]

I did the math and never got solar because it never made financial sense.

If you were offered a lease and the total of the lease payments and forecast utility payments for each year were $300 per year less than what you have now, would that make financial sense to you?

Are you asking if my 'solar savings' per year were $300, or $25 per month, would that be incentive enough? Maybe.

Certainly not on a purchase. The term of the lease would be important. If I get a typical 20 year lease on solar, want to sell my house in 10 years, and the new owner doesn't want old outdated solar panels and to take over the lease, then what?

The other item would be the rate per Kwh at which the leasing company charges me for the electricity the solar panels produce. I was offered $0.24 in the first year and an average of $0.318 over 20 years when I looked into this previously. They estimated a 6.9% annual increase in utility rates and my total savings after 5 years was $548, after 10 years $2,948 (your $300 per year??) This was not enough to make this attractive and a 20 year lease was pure nuts.

All this was before I had an EV, and my annual Kwh usage was estimated at 11,160. With EV this goes up to 16,000, so maybe worth another look.

I want to say I am FOR solar and want it, but I will not pay more just to "feel better about myself knowing I am not polluting the atmosphere by the energy I use at home and to "refuel" my vehicles."

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/516306/what-tech-is-next-for-the-solar-industry/

 

[miimura]

I did the math and never got solar because it never made financial sense.

If you were offered a lease and the total of the lease payments and forecast utility payments for each year were $300 per year less than what you have now, would that make financial sense to you?

Are you asking if my 'solar savings' per year were $300, or $25 per month, would that be incentive enough? Maybe.

Certainly not on a purchase. The term of the lease would be important. If I get a typical 20 year lease on solar, want to sell my house in 10 years, and the new owner doesn't want old outdated solar panels and to take over the lease, then what?

The other item would be the rate per Kwh at which the leasing company charges me for the electricity the solar panels produce. I was offered $0.24 in the first year and an average of $0.318 over 20 years when I looked into this previously. They estimated a 6.9% annual increase in utility rates and my total savings after 5 years was $548, after 10 years $2,948 (your $300 per year??) This was not enough to make this attractive and a 20 year lease was pure nuts.

All this was before I had an EV, and my annual Kwh usage was estimated at 11,160. With EV this goes up to 16,000, so maybe worth another look.

I want to say I am FOR solar and want it, but I will not pay more just to "feel better about myself knowing I am not polluting the atmosphere by the energy I use at home and to "refuel" my vehicles."

You're mixing up Power Purchase Agreement and straight Lease. My example would be a straight lease which has no energy charge - it's just a financing arrangement that allows the tax credit to be rolled in. The installer would give you a forecast of the production and overlay that with your past year electric usage to calculate how much you bill would have been if you had solar. Add the Lease payments and you can see the annual savings of the solar. Even with zero money down, you should be able to save far more than $25/month. I was just being conservative in asking the question.

I don't know what happens when you sell a house with a leased solar system installed. I didn't lease, I purchased my system outright and put it on my home equity line. With my electric bill savings I pay down the equity line faster, so it will pay off even sooner than I calculated with 10 year amortized payments.