New MX /w Folding Bench: Where does that leave our RAV4 EV?

[cashcow]

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====Tesla will now start charging for their SC network====
https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-our-supercharging-program
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Just saw this at the Design studio that the MX now has a folding bench. Not sure for how long it has been out, but back about 3 months ago when I got the rav4 EV I checked the MX and it had no folding Bench which was a deal breaker for me. Now the thing has a folding bench. Where does that leave our RAV4 EV? I recall reading comments from non-rav4 ev owners and rav4 ev owners alike saying the lack of a folding bench was a deal breaker... but what about now? Not only that but the new MX 5 seat config with folding bench can get the full self driving hardware.

Is this going to make some of you guys sell your RAV4 ev and get a MX? I'm curious on what you guys think about this as I am also considering the switch. I need some good points for the rav4 ev (aside from the lesser price) that can make myself and others stay with the vehicle. It just seemed like the folding bench was a big dealer breaker for a lot of potential buyers. I have not checked out this new bench in person but I will have to go in and check one of these days.

The bigger question is if the bench can also be REMOVED. The rav4 ev can have the bench removed. For the MX with the stiff seats I spoke with the foreman before and he told me that thing can't be removed because it is a critical part of the car's structure. What about this new bench I wonder?

https://www.tesla.com/modelx/design

* SM = Sport Mode
* ft³ = Cargo Room (1st number is with out rear seats folded over).

* 180" L x 72" W x 66" H 36.4ft³, 73.0ft³ Toyota RAV4 EV
* 196" L x 77" W x 57" H 31.6ft³, 63.4ft³ Tesla Model S
* 198" L x 89" W x ??" H ??.?ft³, 88.0ft³Tesla Model X

Width is 89 with mirrors open and 81 with mirrors folded for MX.
Width is 80 with mirrors open and 70 with mirrors folded for RAV4 EV.

Ill have to get some inner measurements down later for both vehicles.

Funny thing is that when I went in and measured the MX's interior LENGTH (The MX with the middle seat removed SIX seat config) the thing had less LENGTH than the MS. In turn it also had less LENGTH than the RAV4 EV which, if I remember right, came in at about the same or close to the same inner LENGTH as the MS. I was quite surprised standing there in the showroom with the measuring tape in my hand. Not exactly sure on the WIDTH inside. It did not seem that wide on the INSIDE for some reason. I will have to go into the showroom again and get better measurements on the width. It definitely was taller I believe.

If the MX is not a car changer then the next bet would be either a Tesla Truck or Tesla Van which is said will be built on the Tesla Truck Platform.

Thoughts?

 

[jgblair]

That is interesting. I was at the Newport Beach Tesla store two days ago and talked to them about the X (and our RAV4-EV) and explained how I wanted the seats to fold down and not slide forward. I told them that I bought out my RAV4-EV lease since it was a better fit for hauling things. They did not mention that you can get the seats to fold down now. It would have been interesting to see it in action. They had the six seat model on display. I also am not fond of the folding doors. It seems like an unnecessary expense (and weight?) for my needs.

John

 

[miimura]

The Model X folding 5-seat configuration was just released this week. If you want 6 or 7 seats, you will get the original motorized, non-folding, middle row seats.

 

[jgblair]

That makes sense that the salesman was not familiar with it yet. I will wait a bit and then see if I can find one at a Tesla store. The one in Marin is closest to my West Sonoma County home. Now if they could just do something about those doors... ;-) Thanks for the info.

 

[smkettner]

I was going to buy the electric Volt.... then GM puts gasoline in it.

Then I really had my heart set on the X.... by the time 4WD only was announced I realized it had too many features. Rear doors confirmed this.

Maybe a fully basic Model 3..... still open.

RAV4-EV is great but I cannot trust Toyota service or reliability.

 

[user 340]

I was going to buy the electric Volt.... then GM puts gasoline in it.

Then I really had my heart set on the X.... by the time 4WD only was announced I realized it had too many features. Rear doors confirmed this.

Maybe a fully basic Model 3..... still open.

RAV4-EV is great but I cannot trust Toyota service or reliability.

What about the Chevy Bolt? It is getting near-rave reviews, and you can bet that it is better engineered (e.g., no charge timing issues) and more reliable than our RAV4EVs. Not as much cargo room though, but certainly more than the Volt.

 

[smkettner]

I am loathe to buy any GM product. Ford has nothing interesting. Very sour on Nissan after being one of the first to drive a LEAF.
Really thought Toyota/Tesla would provide some magic but it has been fleeting.
Just hoping my RAV makes it to 2018 or beyond. The simplicity of an EV seems to be still a bit out of reach.
100k for the big Tesla is a bit more than I want to spend.

 

[miimura]

I am hoping that the 8/100 extended warranty on the RAV will get us to the Model Y crossover version of the Model 3.

 

[dstjohn99]

I am loathe to buy any GM product. Ford has nothing interesting. Very sour on Nissan after being one of the first to drive a LEAF.
Really thought Toyota/Tesla would provide some magic but it has been fleeting.
Just hoping my RAV makes it to 2018 or beyond. The simplicity of an EV seems to be still a bit out of reach.
100k for the big Tesla is a bit more than I want to spend.

I share the same sentiments and I have trouble following the advice I am about to share. But, with EV tech being new to mass markets I think we can expect all EV manufacturers (and hence end users) to suffer some negative design and service experiences. If you are never willing to go back you may find yourself ignoring things that evolve into well engineered and competitive products. I don't think we're there yet. I'm just sayin, don't limit your future based on someone else's past mistakes. Things can change. Now if only I could follow this advice myself...

 

[cashcow]

Well! Here is a big shocker, sort of, Tesla is now going to start charging for their super charger network for new owners:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-our-supercharging-program

This is interesting because at least for me it removes one check mark as to why I'd want to buy a Tesla. The free SC network for travel was ' one of those things ' that made another reason to buy a MX. Now that they will start charging for it regular free charging stations seem much more attractive. That and also other EVs. I think this will equalize the field in terms of deciding for another EV since the free SC was kind of a big thing, at least for me. Though this decision was to be expected.

At least now I don't feel as big of an urge to switch from the RAV4 EV onto a 5 seater MX . Sure, I'd still like to go and measure it up to see how the space is looking like, but the thing costs so much. At least having the thought of ' being able to travel for free ' around the USA was kind of reassuring.

This changes the playing field. I think I might just wait for a cheaper EV product with more room to pop-up and just use the regular free charging stations when ever possible. Plus solar panels when possible .

 

[miimura]

For me, the change in Supercharger policy changes nothing. I am already willing to pay for CHAdeMO charging on the RAV4 EV during my infrequent road trips, so paying a nominal fee for Supercharging is a good idea. In addition, about 1,000 free Supercharger miles per year will probably cover my usage anyway. In fact, I think this policy is a huge improvement. This will make Superchargers more available to those that really need it. It will likely solve the existing problems with the Tragedy of the Commons that currently affect the Supercharger network.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes, I agree. I welcome a fee for the Superchargers, just to keep out the local free-loaders who block the spaces from transients, like me.

There are some free CHAdeMO chargers that I use (both with the Model S and RAV4 EV), but I much prefer to pay NRG / eVgo the $3 for 30 minutes at a place that is well lit, professionally maintained, generally available (well, the "free-to-charge" Nissan and BMW folks hog them sometimes), etc.

Free is frequently broken, or hogged by free-loaders.

 

[fromport]

Yes, I agree. I welcome a fee for the Superchargers, just to keep out the local free-loaders who block the spaces from transients, like me.

There are some free CHAdeMO chargers that I use (both with the Model S and RAV4 EV), but I much prefer to pay NRG / eVgo the $3 for 30 minutes at a place that is well lit, professionally maintained, generally available (well, the "free-to-charge" Nissan and BMW folks hog them sometimes), etc.

Free is frequently broken, or hogged by free-loaders.

Yesterday I did another 200+ miles drive with the rav4+jdemo
When it was time to charge I found the nearest NRG EVGO station:
It turned out to be a 25 kW charger that didn't work with my jdemo
next stop was 2 nrg evgo chargers that were both in use by leafs
I then moved on to a free DWP charger about 3 miles further.
A kia soul just pulled away and I was able to charge for 20 minutes before the charger error-ed out with 0x504 (temp alert)
I was down to 16 miles of range and afterwards I could made it out of the san fernando valley back in the direction of home to nrg evgo stations that were less occupied.
Sometimes the free chargers aren't that bad ;-)

 

[miimura]

I will bet that if those Leafs were not on No Charge to Charge, the NRG stations would have been available to you. Same problem as Tesla, "free" charging causes problems. Nissan should pay the $15/mo membership fee for 3 years instead. That way there would still be some per minute fee for usage.

 

[jgblair]

I am hoping that the 8/100 extended warranty on the RAV will get us to the Model Y crossover version of the Model 3.

I'm hoping that any new CUV/SUV from Tesla is as large inside as the RAV is.

John