Lease Return? What would you do?

[miimura]

The "no negotiation" stance is not an indication of Toyota's commitment to this car. It is a standard policy for all Toyota leases across the board. They simply don't vary from the original contract. Period.

 

[fromport]

Perhaps one of the best features of the RAV4 is the Toyota parts... nearly bullet proof, and can be easily maintained anywhere. I love how the non-Tesla parts just “work”. My Tesla Model S just had the driver’s door, then the passenger front door fail. Can’t open either door. They want $700 per door to fix. This is something I’d never even think about with the RAV4.

That really sounds like a problem of Tesla.
How old is your car ? less than 2 years right ?
And that is not covered under warranty ?
From https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty

New Vehicle Limited Warranty
Your Tesla vehicle is protected by a 4 year or 50,000 miles (80,000 km) (whichever occurs first) New Vehicle Limited Warranty and 8 year or unlimited miles Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty. These warranties cover the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of any parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla that occur under normal use during the coverage period

Are you already past the 50.000 miles on your model S ?

I have to also say that Toyota has ALWAYS repaired these cars... there are no RAV4s that were abandoned for lack of a Toyota repair. Their commitment to getting parts (by cannibalizing existing lease returns) when Tesla won’t respond in a timely manner (after 5 years!) is a testament that they will do what has to be done... plus they get future potential warranty repairs off the market ;-)

In my opinion it is not only what but also how: eg:
They repaired my dc-dc converter & heater unit after they made me remove an analog volt-amp meter (with digital readout) on the inlet charge port.
They literally said it was interfering on the CAN bus, to which it isn't connected !
No matter how I talked to the technicians, I had to remove it before they repaired the standard known problem under warranty.

The Jdemo is intercepting the vehicle CAN bus and if they would be willing to allow to diagnose it with the jdemo unplugged (Can bus back to original situation) but all the hardware still installed, i could have lived with it.
But no: they make you remove it before they even want to diagnose the car!
I am not that experienced and removing a jdemo takes me 4+ hours.
Just to diagnose a known failure on a lot of standard rav4ev's ?
Not nice.

According to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry Toyota is the largest car manufacturer in the world.
This company wasn't able to negotiate a warranty contract with Tesla regarding supplied parts ?
And they keep telling us (the customers) "Tesla is not supplying the parts in time"
One thing I learned (coming from Europe to the USA) that there isn't a country where they like to sue as much as the USA.
Why doesn't Toyota sue Tesla for supplying the parts in a timely manner ?
I think I know : Tesla does supply the parts exactly according to the contract.
Toyota just goofed up writing/checking that part of the contract.

It is/was a reason for me not to continue with the Rav4EV. And it's less than a week since I returned it and I miss it _every_ day.
It is not only what but also _how_ and Toyota failed for me.

 

[michael]

This first time my drive motor failed it took five months. Toyota blamed Tesla but who's to say

The second time it failed three Toyota dealers made excuses why it was too much trouble to deal with the problem.

After six months it was finally time to turn back the car with the motor stil howling

If in fact they are cannibalizing lease returns for the MDU this one won't do them any good!!

So in fact the assertion that Toyota has ALWAYS repaired these cars is contrary to my experience, and ours went back at least partly for that reason

 

[TonyWilliams]

This first time my drive motor failed it took five months. Toyota blamed Tesla but who's to say

The second time it failed three Toyota dealers made excuses why it was too much trouble to deal with the problem.

After six months it was finally time to turn back the car with the motor stil howling

If in fact they are cannibalizing lease returns for the MDU this one won't do them any good!!

So in fact the assertion that Toyota has ALWAYS repaired these cars is contrary to my experience, and ours went back at least partly for that reason

What three dealers told you it was “too much trouble” do do a warranty repair?

 

[michael]

I have PMed you the names

They didn't come out and say it, they never called back, they "forgot" to send the paperwork to Tesla, they lost the test report, please make an appointment and come back into start the replacement process all over, the EV specialist hurt his back, etc etc etc.

Each dealer told us to call the other one, "They will take care of you....the service manager is expecting your call"....and of course he wasn't, told us to start all over again with the claim procedure

They basically were like the girl you ask to the prom and she "has to wash her hair that night". They blew us off for months and months till we gave up. Turned the car in and our problems were over.

Our car was infamous in the neighborhood, people joked that they heard it coming down the street....

 

[TonyWilliams]

You do recognize that Toyota USA didn't stop you from getting a motor, and their are dozens of Toyota dealers that have replaced hundreds (if not a thousand) or more motors?

I've gotten four replacement motors total.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to name the bad dealers.

Again, go to dealers that WANT to work on this car.

 

[michael]

You do recognize that Toyota USA didn't stop you from getting a motor, and their are dozens of Toyota dealers that have replaced hundreds (if not a thousand) or more motors?

I've gotten four replacement motors total.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to name the bad dealers.

Again, go to dealers that WANT to work on this car.

I have to also say that Toyota has ALWAYS repaired these cars... there are no RAV4s that were abandoned for lack of a Toyota repair. Their commitment to getting parts (by cannibalizing existing lease returns) when Tesla won’t respond in a timely manner (after 5 years!) is a testament that they will do what has to be done... plus they get future potential warranty repairs off the market ;-)

You are splitting hairs if you are now saying that Toyota USA never failed to repair the cars when their dealer network made the task unreasonably difficult. Toyota could have prevented this issue by taking responsibility for fixing things such as the MDU rather than putting customers at Tesla's mercy and forcing dealers to be intermediaries. Or by simply telling dealers they absolutely need to take good care of RAV EV owners. You said "Toyota" and I take that term to include the dealer network they have established and the parts sourcing (Tesla) they contracted. I can't take the car to Toyota USA and have them fix it...I need to go to a dealer within a reasonable distance. So if they fail, I feel justified in saying Toyota failed.

I don't want to publicly name the "bad" dealers because I don't want a further fight with them, but I passed the info on to you in a PM as I promised so you wouldn't believe I was making this up. And in fact I'm not ready to call them "bad"...I'm guessing they simply found it too difficult and expensive to take care of EV owners and did whatever was necessary to make us go away.

And should I have to go to a dealer 50 or 100 miles away to get service? There is a Chevy, Ford, and Toyota dealer within walking distance of my office. When I had a Focus Electric, that Ford dealer took care of the few EV problems I experienced willingly. I've had zero problems with the Bolt, but I'm confident the Chevy dealer would deal with any problems as willingly as they took care of my previous Volt. The local Toyota dealer? Or the next one farther away? Or the next one farther than that? Can't say that for them. How many dealers am I expected to take the car to in order to find one that wants to work on the car?

And I have to believe your experience with service may be better than other people's since you are a known EV celebrity. If I complain, nobody takes it seriously. If you had reason to do so, it would attract attention.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I’m not suggesting that your overall Toyota / Toyota Dealer (privately held companies in the US) / Tesla / RAV4 EV experience was good.

To own these cars takes a bit of perseverance, sadly. But, again, to my knowledge, no RAV4 has been left stranded. The group here could have helped you find a dealer who would work with the car, as we have done for others, many times.

I also have always suggested leasing any EV, and you seem to have done that. Were you able to turn the car in without issue?

Had you kept the car, certainly, with properly directed perseverance, you would have gotten it fixed.

There are folks getting motor replacements in other states and other countries, even. I received a motor in Washington state (after a 3-6 month wait) that was repaired at a dealer that had never heard of a RAV4 EV. Toyota flew in two technicians, one from Portland and one from Boise.

Again, there are no shortage of issues. This car is not for everybody, and the Toyota overall satisfaction can be quite low. But, after almost 200,000 miles on a total of 3 RAV4 EVs, I’d rate the dealer experience as the lowest value. Again, go to dealers that WANT to work on the car.

If any company came out with a competent compact SUV like the RAV4, with at least 150 miles of range, with DC fast charging, I would likely buy it over a similar Toyota product.

But, the next Toyotas EV is likely to be a RAV4 again, in 2021, with all Mazda and Toyota technology. Toyota really does support their cars, and I think removing Tesla from the equation is a good thing.

 

[user 340]

... I think removing Tesla from the equation is a good thing.

+1 to that! The combination of the high failure rates of our Tesla parts plus the poor relationship between Toyota and Tesla (or at least Toyota's lack of enthusiasm for repairs) has been our biggest long-term ownership issue as we have discussed thoroughly.

Hopefully Toyota will take more ownership of their next EVs. I read that they will have 90% ownership of the joint venture with Mazda (the other Japanese EV holdout).

 

[cossie1600]

I bought mine out, probably lost 3-4K, but I knew my car had a brand new battery and it can still do 100 miles without extended charge. Sure Bolt has more range, probably cost me less per month, but I wouldnt want to drive my family around in that little car. The RAV4 can be used as a family car, minus the range issue.

 

[Allen]

I kept mine as well. Probably lost some money also. I have my original battery which does between 98 and 101 on the regular charge, as high as 115 on full charge.

I was looking at Teslas and my brother took a look at the Bolt. Neither was a replacement. It also would have cost me to get remove the Jademo for turn in.

The real value of the car comes when it (hopefully) drives forever.

 

[smkettner]

The real value of the car comes when it (hopefully) drives forever.

I don't need forever... Just until something near equivalent is produced.
I cross my fingers every day.

 

[fromport]

I kept mine as well. Probably lost some money also. I have my original battery which does between 98 and 101 on the regular charge, as high as 115 on full charge.

I was looking at Teslas and my brother took a look at the Bolt. Neither was a replacement. It also would have cost me to get remove the Jademo for turn in.

The real value of the car comes when it (hopefully) drives forever.

The usability of a rav4ev is imho "doubled" by the JDEMO add-on.
Unfortunately, if _any_ of the known quirks ( non related to JDEMO ) hits your RAV4EV, toyota (in my experience) makes you jump to hoops in order to even diagnose it.
I really hope it keeps working for you.
As long as it works, it is one of the most versatile EV's and certainly an economic one available at the moment.
Just hope that it keeps working!

 

[cossie1600]

I had quite a bit of issue when I first got the car. I figure now that they replaced the battery and motor, I should be good for a while. Let's hope the DC/DC converter doesn't blow out.

I did order a Model X to back the RAV4 up.

 

[New8848]

Tony,

I plan to buy out at the end of leaser (11/30/2017). I'm interested in the "Leather interior". How much is it?

Thanks,
Charlie

If I had Jademo installed and the car was not a problem child I would buy it.
Plan to keep it 2 to 5 years until the flood of EVs hits the market.

Me too. With a new motor, new onboard charger, and a future new cabin heater, I’m good for the next 100,000 miles (I hope).

The only things I plan to change:

1) New wheels / tires (I like the 18” ones on the RAV4 Sport)

2) Leather interior

3) New floor mats

4) Small body repairs

5) Upgrade to JdeMO charging speed (200 - 250 amps... nearly double the 125 amp speed)

6) Auxiliary battery pack of 15-30kWh

7) Maybe the roof rack

I already have a trailer hitch, which I use regularly.

With the above, I will be quite happy into the next decade. CHAdeMO charging stations continue to be added daily in the world, and they are only getting faster. Nothing on the immediate horizon can replace the RAV4.

Perhaps one of the best features of the RAV4 is the Toyota parts... nearly bullet proof, and can be easily maintained anywhere. I love how the non-Tesla parts just “work”. My Tesla Model S just had the driver’s door, then the passenger front door fail. Can’t open either door. They want $700 per door to fix. This is something I’d never even think about with the RAV4.

I have to also say that Toyota has ALWAYS repaired these cars... there are no RAV4s that were abandoned for lack of a Toyota repair. Their commitment to getting parts (by cannibalizing existing lease returns) when Tesla won’t respond in a timely manner (after 5 years!) is a testament that they will do what has to be done... plus they get future potential warranty repairs off the market ;-)