Hypermile tips - disappointing range?

[swogee]

I recently tried to take a trip from San Luis Obispo to Monterey (for a social gathering) on 101 in our new RAV4 EV (only 717 miles on it) and it was quite the adventure or mis-adventure depending on one's point of view.

The trip was on Sunday and the RAV4 EV was charged to full in extended mode. The GOM read 108 we left SLO. We stopped in Atascadero at the Tesla Supercharger/Roadster EVSE station to top off our battery and it took 1.5 hours to charge to full even though we had only driven 21 miles. I was a bit surprised it took that long even with the Tesla/Clipper Creek Roadster EVSE. The ambient temp was 102 degrees F, and we had to climb 1500 feet over Cuesta Grade so that might have been factor as well. At full charge the GOM was 108. We left Atascadero at 4:15PM and it was still 102 degrees F. The cruise control was set to 70 and the HVAC was on ECO HI with temp at 72 degrees F. DRL's were on as well as the radio. Around Camp Roberts north of San Miguel on 101 we increased the speed to 75. The outside temp was still 102. When we passed King City the charge gauge was at about 8 bars and I thought we could make the next charge station in Salinas at 107 miles from Atascadero. The bars started to drop much more rapidly on the lower half so with two bars left we reduced our speed to 55 and shut off the HVAC system. The outside temp was in the mid 70's and that point. We finally got the turtle light South of Salinas so we pulled off the highway as the message readout said loss of traction battery power. We only made it 103 miles. Called AAA and had the RAV4 EV towed to Salinas Rabobank with a Tesla/Clipper Creek EVSE. (Toyota Care would only tow to Toyota dealer in Salinas which had no public EVSE and service was closed on Sunday.) Plugged in around 7PM, and it took 6.5 hours (until 1:30AM) to fully charge the battery in extended mode. The GOM read 111 miles. I thought it would charge up in 5 hours or so. We headed back home and stopped in King City for one hour to charge to make sure we would make it back to Atascadero EVSE. GOM read 63 when we stopped in King City. We got about roughly 20 miles from that station. We charged for one more hour at Atascadero Tesla/Clipper Creek EVSE to make sure we could make it back to SLO. Arrived back in SLO at 6:15AM with 20 miles on the GOM. We had 5 persons in the vehicle (two adults/3 kids) during the trip with minimal stuff.

So what I would like to know is how we can squeeze more mileage/range out of the battery? Also is the time (6.5 hours) to completely charge the battery on extended from empty to full about right? I was hoping to get closer to 120 miles on extended and 100 on standard. I was thinking of taking the RAV4 EV south to Santa Barbara (90 miles w/ 2000 ft elevation pass) or Ventura (add 30 miles for 120 miles) but I'm not sure if it could make it. It looks like Monterey won't work unless the range can be increased. The GOM typically says 84 when in standard and 108 when in extended. I know the GOM numbers aren't always accurate but I am curious how people manage to get better mileage. Any thoughts and ideas are welcome. Thanks in advance.

-Steve

 

[miimura]

If you drove 65mph, you would have easily made it 120 miles on an extended charge. The RAV is kind of a brick, aerodynamically. You simply drove too fast.

Tony's Range Chart is very useful for planning.

I did the drive from SLO to my home in Los Altos in one day with a little planning. I had no problem and the car did what I expected.
My RAV4 EV Buying Adventure

 

[Dsinned]

You had five passengers and drove in 100+ degrees with the A/C running most of the way! That combination depleted your battery at a faster rate, and as Miimura stated, driving at the "maximum" speed limit (70 mph) took its toll as well. You MUST pay attention to your average miles per kWh displayed on the center console. It is a running average and can be used to help determine (or predict) your maximum range on a full charge. For example, if you started out on a relatively new car's full battery capacity of 41.8kWh after completing an "extended" charge, and your average MPK, as indicated on the center console display, maintained 3.0 (or better), you "should" be able to travel ~125 miles (or more) before your battery becomes fully depleted. Note, that the RAV4 EV GoM does not correspond properly to your battery's usable capacity after an extended charge. The loss of bars on the GoM initially will be at a much slower rate. One last (very minor) way to eek a few more miles of range out of your RAV4 EV would be to slightly over inflate your tires. However, do not inflate them to more than 32 psi (cold tire pressure) when driving in such hot weather. In cold weather you can over inflate even more, but I recommend that you do not exceed 36 psi (cold tire pressure).

 

[swogee]

miimura,

Thanks for the tip. I figured speed might have had something to do with it so when going on long trips it looks like 60-65 for max range.

I read your adventure posting from when you picked up your RAV4 EV. I'm familiar with all of the locations you stopped at as I live in SLO and I used to live in Monterey. It looks like we share the same opinions about stations wagons as well with the addition of the fact that we prefer manual transmissions as well. We have a 2000 Passat GLX wagon with a 5MT that has 318K on it that is our primary out of town vehicle. I have been looking for a replacement wagon for a while and all mid size wagons are now gone (except MB and Subaru w/ no MT's). I have been searching for a 2004 Passat GLX wagon with a 5MT and less than 100K on it to no avail. I'm also a fellow Cal Poly alumni with a B.S. in Electronic Engineering.

Our RAV4 purchase adventure wasn't quite as interesting as I only had to stop in Camarillo to charge for a few hours while we were at the Greek Festival on June 22nd and then I spent four more hours at the Rabobank in Goleta charging up to get range to go to SLO. We got our RAV4 at Carson Toyota after a family trip to San Diego. The wife and kids were in the Passat so they continued home while I did the final charge in Goleta.

-Steve

 

[swogee]

Thanks for the additional info Dsinned. I think if it were me I would have been fine driving with no A/C or climate for that matter with outside temps at 102 degrees F, but the wife and kids would probably not be happy. I would suspect that the RAV4 would be fine on trips south for that reason as the coastal temps are moderate and stay below 80 degrees with the exception of San Marcos pass. North of SLO is much harder during summer as temps are routinely above 100 until entering the Salinas Valley on 101. So 120 miles is possible with no HVAC and 60 to 65 speeds? I have watched the efficiency screen as well and it usually sits around 2.5 to 2.8 mi/kwh. I'm assuming only way to keep the efficiency above 3 on long trips is low speeds and low accelerations rates.

 

[Kohler Controller]

Swogee, speed got you. As an example, this weekend, we drove to my parents house via the toll road. After an extended charge (132 miles estimated range at start), my wife drove 70-85 mph a majority of the way (85 mile trip). We arrived with 19 miles on the GOM. After a full charge (128 miles estimated range), on the way home, we took the highway going 60-65 mph, and got home (70 miles later) with 71 miles left on the GOM.

As mentioned previously by others, you should get 120-130 miles of range (even with A/C) if you keep your speed below 65 mph.

As for full recharge time, it depends on how much power you are consuming from the EVSE. I'm guess you were only getting slightly over 6kW while charging in the wild.

You have a very patient family.

 

[Dsinned]

Just for comparison purposes I typically maintain an average of 3.0 MPK driving at fairly low speeds within the city limits. On the freeway, even with A/C, I sometimes get upwards of 3.4 MPK. I get that by driving 60 to 65 mph on average. Also, I hardly ever drive in Sport Mode, but if i did, that would sure hurt my range. For passenger weight it is usually just me and my wife at a portly 400+ lbs. A bi-monthly trip to the grocery store maybe adds another 50 lbs.

Btw, the Cd of the RAV4 EV is surprisingly good for an SUV; just 3.0 as I recall. That is lower than many other cars, especially SUVs.

I agree with Miimura about public charging places. You would be lucky to find one that charges faster than 6.25kW, which is usually because they are power sourced limited to 208Vac and 30A. Assuming a charging efficiency of around 85% on a L2 EVSE, an extended charge probably consumes ~49kWh (41.8 / 0.85). At a charging rate of 6.25kW/hr, it should actually take almost 8 hours (49 / 6.25) to fully recharge in extended mode. Conversely, a "normal" charge should take about 6.5 hours. However, it all depends on the battery's actual usable energy. I may be using figures on the high side. Of course, it also depends on the age of the battery, and how many times it has been recharged since new.

The problem with public charging is you never know what you're going to get. What we really need is a network of public charging 240V, 30A (or greater) AC outlets and L2 EVSEs that we have in the trunk. OEM charge (120V) cords for traveling purposes are essentially useless.

 

[swogee]

Thank you all for the great tips on getting more range. It looks like when we're in the RAV4 EV on an out of the county trip it will need to be 65 mph or less. I think our next out of county trip will be to Santa Barbara which is 90 to 100 miles away from SLO depending on the route. The shorter route (via 154) has a climb over San Marcos pass which is 2000 feet at the top while the longer route has only a 920 foot climb.

The family wasn't super happy about being in Salinas for 7 hours, but there was a Chuck E. Cheese nearby so that helped some. In some ways I think driving an EV is bit like it was back when automobiles were new and trips were a bit of an adventure since more planning is required due to limited EVSE stations and range limits.

It does seem as though the public L2 charging stations have varying amounts of current (20 to 30A usually) although when I look for stations I try to find the Tesla/Clipper Creek EVSE's which are usually higher current than the typical stations. There are three that I have used before, one in Salinas at Rabobank on North Davis, one in Atascadero at Rabobank next the Superchargers, and one in Goleta off of North Fairview at a Rabobank. I guess 6.5 hours isn't too bad for a full charge as I think that was a 40A at 208V at the Rabobank in Salinas. (I think the Tesla Roadsters can use up to 70A.) I would tend to agree that the 120V cord is fairly useless but if someone has a lots of extra time...... I am planning on getting the JESLA for future use although 14-50 outlets are usually only located at RV parks and such.

 

[miimura]

You may have noticed that I did the San Marcos Pass when I drove mine home from Oxnard. Going north, I would recommend that way. However, the Santa Barbara side is steeper and twisty and you would likely need to use the friction brakes, erasing a lot of the energy that you used getting to the top of the pass. So, without any additional data, I would probably take 101 all the way around when going southbound.

 

[Dsinned]

I would tend to agree that the 120V cord is fairly useless but if someone has a lots of extra time...... I am planning on getting the JESLA for future use although 14-50 outlets are usually only located at RV parks and such.

You might want to look into getting an Electric Motor Werks JuiceBox.

I just got one and have been quite impressed. A JB is signficantly less costly compared to most other "full power" L2 EVSEs on the market that are capable of charging at 10kW provided the 240V, 40A grid connected infrastructure is available at home or on the road. A JB (in two different enclosures) is portable for charging while on trips. The standard input cord has a NEMA14-50P plug compatible with RV Parks and is 6' long for greater flexibility; most other "plug-ins" only have 1' cords.

A "Premium" JB enclosure has some really cool features such as a LCD display with menu driven commands via a remote 4-button key fob. It can also have WiFi that is very easy to setup and use (via a bulit-in WPS capability).

All models of the JB include auto-voltage sensing between 100 to 264VAC inputs without the need for any internal modifications, and there are optional input adapter cords available for regular 120V household outlets, as well as an the old style, electric clothes drier (230V/30A). I have even devised a means to connect my JB to a portable electric generator using a twist-lock, 240V/30A, NEMA L14-30P to 14-50R adapter cord when public charging stations and/or any style outdoor outlet is simply unavailable such as while on a vacation trip away from home at the extreme range limit of a RAV4 EV.

I highly recommend the overall versatility of a JuiceBox EVSE on your next out of town trip!

 

[fooljoe]

Don't pay attention to the GOM!!!!! If you're taking a long trip, reset your trip efficiency meter and trip odometer at the start. If, for example, you need to drive 120 miles on an extended charge, then you need to maintain 120 / 41.8 = 2.9 miles / kwh. Watch that efficiency meter like a hawk while you drive and if you're not keeping your efficiency above 2.9 then SLOW DOWN!

As miimura said, the best thing you can do to extend your range is simply to slow down. Losses to aerodynamic drag go up with the square of speed, so there's a big difference between driving at 65 mph and 75 mph.

Also, (most) public charging stations are sloooow. This is because most of them are set up on commercial 208v service (in practice more like 200v) rather than the ~240v you have at home. Most of them are only 30a as well, and although those Tesla-branded ones are 70a, you can only use 40a.

200v @ 40a = 8kw. But there's roughly 80% efficiency translating that "wall" power into pack power, which means you're charging at 6.4 kw (4.8 kw from a 30a EVSE.) Doing an extended charge from empty at 6.4 kw will take just about 6.5 hours (41.8 / 6.4), exactly what you experienced.

If you could've charged up at an RV park with your own portable 40a EVSE like a Jesla or Juicebox or openEVSE, you could've charged at the full 240v @ 40a that our chargers are capable of, or about 7.6 kw into the pack, which can cut a 0-100% charge down to 5.5 hours.

And now for the shameless plug: I recommend you give RavCharge a try. I've cooked all these calculations into the app, which I and many of my users find invaluable whenever taking a long trip. Plus you get all kinds of other cool features, like charging and climate control timers and sending commands by SMS.

 

[swogee]

fooljoe, I have been playing around with RAVCHARGE and I was trying to decide if it's worth paying for. I have determined that it has many features that make it better than the Toyota Entune app. I especially like the SMS functions of it as I don't like paying for data on my phone. Great job on RAVCHARGE. Thanks for the tip on the GOM. I'll have watch the efficiency readout much closer this time to try to keep it over 3.0 mile/kWh.

Dsinned, I have also checked the Juicebox charger out and that was my second choice after the JESLA. I think I will get the JESLA initially though as it is a commercially available and a UL tested product. I don't have time experiment with the Juicebox although the engineer side of me would like to. If I decide I need to get a stationary charger the Deluxe Juicebox will likely be the one.

 

[fooljoe]

fooljoe, I have been playing around with RAVCHARGE and I was trying to decide if it's worth paying for. I have determined that it has many features that make it better than the Toyota Entune app. I especially like the SMS functions of it as I don't like paying for data on my phone. Great job on RAVCHARGE. Thanks for the tip on the GOM. I'll have watch the efficiency readout much closer this time to try to keep it over 3.0 mile/kWh.

Dsinned, I have also checked the Juicebox charger out and that was my second choice after the JESLA. I think I will get the JESLA initially though as it is a commercially available and a UL tested product. I don't have time experiment with the Juicebox although the engineer side of me would like to. If I decide I need to get a stationary charger the Deluxe Juicebox will likely be the one.

Thanks for trying RavCharge; I appreciate the feedback! As far as the JESLA, I agree it's a great product, but I don't think you're correct about UL listing - so if that's your reason for buying it you might want to reconsider. I'm not even sure that the Tesla UMC is UL listed, but even if it is I'm pretty sure the act of chopping off the Model S connector and attaching a J1772 connector, while done with excellent workmanship by the Quick Charge Power guys, would void any UL listing it might have.

As far as the value of UL listing in general, the one EVSE I know of that definitely was UL listed was the Blink, and those were pretty much the worst quality EVSEs out there...

 

[swogee]

fooljoe, you're correct about the voided UL listing on the JESLA but IMHO I still feel it's more robust than the Juicebox. The JESLA will likely be tossed around the more since it will be used in mobile applications. I seem to recall reading someplace that the builders of the Juicebox had be "shamed" into putting user protection circuitry into it. The lower pricepoint on the Juicebox sure is attractive though as are the other features.

 

[fooljoe]

The other option of course would be openEVSE. If I were shopping for an EVSE right now I think I'd go with an openEVSE with a nice display and push button for full adjustability (much better than the analog trimpot on the JB or having to switch out adapters on the JESLA, IMO), and a second display of volts and amps. I'd use the same relay the Juicebox uses and a 40 amp 25' cable from Quick Charge Power. The downside to openEVSE is that you can't just buy one readymade from an "official" online store, but GlennD is putting together units like I described all the time and listing them for sale on the LEAF forum for $400-500.

Another very robust portable unit with full adjustability and a cool security feature is a LEAF EVSE upgraded by evseupgrade.com. I have one of these (bought before the JESLA existed) and I actually end up using it more than my openEVSE because I don't often find a 50 amp circuit on the road (haven't done the RV park thing yet.) It only goes up to 25 amps but that's generally fine for overnight charging. I paid $1k for mine last year and I see that they're going for $650 now.

 

[miimura]

I think adjustability is a key feature that is missing from EVSE in the USA. This unit is a European J1772 portable EVSE and it has UP/DOWN buttons and a simple LED segment display that shows the setting for the pilot current. Is there a reason this type of unit cannot be certified and sold in this country?

 

[Dsinned]

I think adjustability is a key feature that is missing from EVSE in the USA.

Exactly why I like my JuiceBox so much! Here's a YouTube video that demonstrates how effortlessly it is to adjust using the key fob remote feature.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRKIpf2Wx_c

Btw, the same remote functionality shown in this video of the "Premium" unit, is also available in the less costly "basic" model, which I feel is more compact and rugged for portable use. A JuiceBox can be purchased from EMW's online "store" completely pre-assembled and tested, for not that much extra in cost.

Here's the link to the online store for completely preassembled JuiceBox units, ala carte "DIY" kits, J1772 and input cable choices, other options and prices.

http://www.emotorwerks.com/products/online-store

Here is a photo of my JuiceBox an EMW designed wall mount hanger in my garage while charging my VOLT. Note, I customized it by adding a set of Efergy energy monitoring 2-CTs and Tx) sensors on the inside of the enclosure, so I can monitor my JuiceBox's output on a desktop LCD display in the house. Plus, I added a small, multimeter with a LCD digital readout of AC voltage and current. It was a challenge to get all this extra stuff to fit in a Basic JB Enclosure. Also, it's hard to see, but I replaced the enclosure's solid aluminum cover plate with a 1/8" thick sheet of plexiglass to make all the internals viewable. There is an FTDI port USB connection on the inside and some calibrating trimpots on the main PCB, so the cover is held in place by six small screws. With a see-thru cover, I can easily spot check for any evidence of electrical overheating while charging my RAV4 EV at full power (10kW).

http://s862.photobucket.com/user/dsinned99/media/JBphoto1_zps82d92202.jpg.html

 

[swogee]

Update:

I was thinking of attempting to make another trip from SLO to Monterey but I am not entirely convinced the RAV4 will make it. So far the longest trips that we have made on the RAV4 are from SLO to Santa Barbara which is 100 miles. I was trying to determine how much time it would take as well.

Last time I only got approx 103 miles out of the battery on extended charge after charging up in Atascadero which is 19 miles from SLO. A quick recap of speeds are as follows: 1st leg Atascadero to Camp Roberts: 25 miles at 70 mph, 2nd leg Camp Roberts to King City: 37 miles at 75 mph, final leg King City to South of Salinas before turtle light: 41 miles at 70 mph (at start) with the last 12 miles or so at 55. The A/C was on at temp 72 and ECO HI. Exterior temps were over 100 until King City when the temps tapered down to the high 70s. Two adults and 3 kids in vehicle.

It's about 150 miles from place to Monterey. I was thinking of stopping again at the Atascadero Rabobank EVSE with the 70A clipper creek to top off since would help increase the range after the climb up Cuesta grade. It's 19 miles from my house to the Atascadero Rabobank. Theoretically I should be able to be make the full 150 without stopping but there is Cuesta grade (approx 1500ft pass). If I leave early enough the temps should be low enough I should be able keep the HVAC off to get more range since it will be just me. The other concern I have is the charge time required in Monterey. I have looked at the charging stations and only 30A locations exist. That means at least an 8 hour wait to fully charge the battery which is longer than I hoped. I was try to find an RV park with a NEMA 14-50 receptacle but there aren't many in the city of Monterey. So it will be approximately 3 hours each way at 55 mph, and then 8 hours in Monterey which makes for a 14 hour excursion (leave at 8AM back at 10 or 11PM?). This doesn't include any unexpected problems such as charge stations not available. I'm wondering if its even practical.

Any thoughts or ideas are welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... I was try to find an RV park with a NEMA 14-50 receptacle but there aren't many in the city of Monterey. So it will be approximately 3 hours each way at 55 mph, and then 8 hours in Monterey which makes for a 14 hour excursion (leave at 8AM back at 10 or 11PM?). This doesn't include any unexpected problems such as charge stations not available. I'm wondering if its even practical.

Any thoughts or ideas are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Below is the trip I did last summer, and the trip that my brother is doing right now (he is in Northern California now).

First question, do you have a JESLA or other method to get 40 amps from a NEMA 14-50?

Second, SLOW DOWN !!! Find a truck and match his speed... 55-58mph is typical. Do NOT draft too closely and compromise safety.

Third, run the air conditioner. It is VERY efficient and it is running anyway to cool your battery. The very few miles you'll lose from cooling the cabin will mostly be offset by having the windows up.

Fourth, I think you are using GOM values for your trip, and that is never going to work well.


NOTE: I have a Tesla Roadster adaptor


From my house in San Diego:

84 miles - S. Coast Plaza - ClipperCreek (CC) 30a/208v -free

61 miles - Malibu Civic Center - CC 30a/208v- free

31 miles - CSU Camarillo - CC 30a/208v - free

56 miles - Rabobank Goleta - CC 70a/240v - free

98 miles - San Luis Obispo Embassy Suites CC 30a/208v - free

135 miles - Rabobank Salinas CC - 70a/240v - free

117 miles - Renaissance Club Sport, Walnut Creek, CA - ChargePoint 30a/208v $$$

71 miles - Davis garage, 4th/G Street, CC 70a/208v free

91 miles - Berry Patch Restaurant, Orland, CA, CC70a/240v!! First Roadster connector free

151.6 miles - Comfort Inn, Yreka, CA, CC 70a /208v Roadster connector free

121.8 miles - Canyonville, OR, CC 70a/208v Roadster free

117 miles - Halsey, OR, AeroVironment (AV) 30a/208v J1772 needs AV key fob to work $

83 miles - June 25 - Portland, OR, CC 70a/208v Roadster free

103.2 miles - June 25 - Maryhill Washington State Park - NEMA 14-50 50a/240v with JESLA 240v/40amp EVSE, $$

100.6 miles - June 25- Kennewick, WA

 

[kiwiguy]

Tony - can you tell us more about this Tesla Roadster adaptor you speak of?
I assume it allows you to charge a J1772 EV from a Roadster charger?
I haven't seen such a thing before. Only the other way around.

Thanks!