Extended Charge function decrease after recall software

[fromport]

Tony,
Do you know what the voltages equate to ?
I want to go the easy route, and plug in the techstream, and get the voltage numbers off the computer.

techstream is the toyota part right ?
Can they access the gateway and read the Tesla part ?

I have gone through most of the options of techstream and never found anything like that.
Afaik the authorized dealers have a special laptop that plugs into the testla obd connector in the back, with special tesla software to gain access to that kind of information.

 

[rayray]

Techstream gives you tons of info, including tesla error codes. (you will have to buy the $20 dongle off amazon) to connect to the computer .
You can also disable the annoying beeping of the seatbelt, reverse, or have the remote open all doors with one click, program new tire pressure monitors, and etc, etc ...
It also give you the pack voltage, details etc ...

In fact I was able to show Toyota the 2 errors that specifically relate to the ECU gateway, when they ere claiming no issues found, and then they promptly changed the ECU gateway ....

I'll jump on there and see if it also give you the KW on the pack ... I know it gives voltage, but don't remember if it had the KW ...

 

[fromport]

Techstream gives you tons of info, including tesla error codes. (you will have to buy the $20 dongle off amazon) to connect to the computer .
You can also disable the annoying beeping of the seatbelt, reverse, or have the remote open all doors with one click, program new tire pressure monitors, and etc, etc ...
It also give you the pack voltage, details etc ...

In fact I was able to show Toyota the 2 errors that specifically relate to the ECU gateway, when they ere claiming no issues found, and then they promptly changed the ECU gateway ....

I'll jump on there and see if it also give you the KW on the pack ... I know it gives voltage, but don't remember if it had the KW ...

I have the whole package working
Could you make a screenshot of the settings how to get to the specific EV parts ?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tony,
Do you know what the voltages equate to ?
I want to go the easy route, and plug in the techstream, and get the voltage numbers off the computer.

The voltages are not directly indexed to a SOC%.

Max pack voltage is 386 volts DC, with 92 cells in series at 4.2 volts each.

Max OCV is about 382 volts.

Minimum is about 275 volts (the actual minimum is dependent on which cell hits 2.5 volts first).

 

[rayray]

So, I jumped on the techstream briefly today, and here is what I got. (sorry didn't realize I need to have an URL for it, and can't upload screenshot) ..
Interestingly, I didn't know why I thought it had voltage vs capacity ..
It actually gives you capacity ...
Here are my numbers ... This is full regular charge + 6 hours rest after charge @ 72 degree, and on ready, as that's the only way to get to the data ...

Based on Tony's numbers; "35kWh / 41.8kWh", I should be a happy camper, as I'm showing zero degradation?

I guess trying to do as many shallow charges possible, and doing an extend charge once a year (only 3 to date) to balance the pack has paid off ...

Some Data off Car (Lots more data)
Total Distance Traveled: 33271 mile
Model Year: 2013 (even though it's a 2012 ?)
SOC: 99.2%
Remaining Battery Amount: 35 KWh
Charge Control Value: 50kW (we can push 50KW?)
Discharge control Value: 170 KW (about 500 amps ?)
DC/DC Converter Requested Output Voltage: 14.3V

 

[TonyWilliams]

Based on Tony's numbers; "35kWh / 41.8kWh", I should be a happy camper, as I'm showing zero degradation?

Those are not my numbers... those are Toyotas numbers.

I guess trying to do as many shallow charges possible, and doing an extend charge once a year (only 3 to date) to balance the pack has paid off ...

Some Data off Car (Lots more data)
Total Distance Traveled: 33271 mile
Model Year: 2013 (even though it's a 2012 ?)
SOC: 99.2%
Remaining Battery Amount: 35 KWh
Charge Control Value: 50kW (we can push 50KW?)
Discharge control Value: 170 KW (about 500 amps ?)
DC/DC Converter Requested Output Voltage: 14.3V

We push 45kW through with JdeMO. I have some reservations about magically having exactly 35.0 KWH after three years and 33,000 miles... that is just not realistic.

 

[travelRav4]

I finally did the tony test.
Extended charge 144/146 = 98.6%
Regular charge 125/146 =85.6%

Glad that extended charge seems to be working. Is the regular charge suppose to around 85%? Is it possible that the extended charge time shortened because the regular charge percentage is higher? Thanks.

 

[n3ckf]

i did the recall upgrade immediately after getting the JDEMO install and noticed no difference between the "Tony Test" before and after the upgrade. (Palo Alto Toyota didnt burp on the fact i had a JDEMO installed when i did it either, they've seen them before).

I have 138 miles on a full reset, the car has 43K miles on it and i've owned it about 33 months. (We ended up doing full resets a couple of times around the time of the install so i got a couple of data points).

One thing i do notice is the GOM is just blown away by using JDEMO. (since you dont turn the car off when using JDEMO, i can drive all the way from my house in the mountains to a JDEMO charge stop and then home to Fremont, or in reverse). This makes the computed "miles/kwh" you see when turning the car off and eventually the GOM read wildly wrong numbers. For instance i drove 150 miles one time and got "10 miles/kwh" on the display when i turned the car off.

I believe this is because the *car doesnt know its charging* when using JDEMO. So it just notices that it had more battery power at the end than at the beginning, clamps the "power used" to 10miles/KWH (the most it will indicate) and leaves it at that. Some time later the GOM averages in either that value, or the real unclamped value (hard to tell which) as one of your "drives" and gets totally bizarre results.

I figured out how to minimize this (I think).
- what i do is, when i arrive to charge (with JDEMO), i TURN THE CAR OFF then back on.
- then charge with JDEMO as normal. (Car "on"/Ready with the parking brake on) & remove the charging handle
- then turn it off AGAIN and turn it back on before driving away.

My conjecture is that if you go 0 miles and battery state is "different" the car control system that runs the GOM doesn't count that as "driving". So the change in charge state doesn't affect the GOM calculation. My results are much more "normal" after doing this. (which i sometimes forget, but 90% of the time i'm remembering now).

 

[TonyWilliams]

This is even easier to "fix".

Just go to the center screen, "EV" soft button, find the "Miles /kWh" screen, then pdate / delete / clear (can't remember what it's called, but you want it ALL updated / cleared).

It should say 0.0 miles per kWh, with no history.

Do this immediately AFTER you have completed your charge with JdeMO.

 

[rayray]

Based on Tony's numbers; "35kWh / 41.8kWh", I should be a happy camper, as I'm showing zero degradation?

Those are not my numbers... those are Toyotas numbers.

I guess trying to do as many shallow charges possible, and doing an extend charge once a year (only 3 to date) to balance the pack has paid off ...

Some Data off Car (Lots more data)
Total Distance Traveled: 33271 mile
Model Year: 2013 (even though it's a 2012 ?)
SOC: 99.2%
Remaining Battery Amount: 35 KWh
Charge Control Value: 50kW (we can push 50KW?)
Discharge control Value: 170 KW (about 500 amps ?)
DC/DC Converter Requested Output Voltage: 14.3V

We push 45kW through with JdeMO. I have some reservations about magically having exactly 35.0 KWH after three years and 33,000 miles... that is just not realistic.

I would normally tend to agree with you if everything was routine, but in my case it's not .
I have been building battery packs with used 18650 out of laptops for many years now, and I have learned a lot about them.
They will not last over 8 to 10 years period....Especially in a hot environment... So no matter what you do, they have a terminal life - unlike Nickel Iron that can last upwards of 80 years. (I'm in the process on getting those from China to go off the grid for good, and use the grid only as my generator )

These batteries have about 200 to 300 full discharge cycles, were you will see real degradation after full 300 discharge cycles for sure. However, if you do shallow charges, as in my case that number jumps to 1800 to 2000+ cycles ....
I can count on my hands how many times I have gone below 50% SOC, and for the last 33k miles I have always charged above 50% SOC, thus pushing the 2000+ cycles....

So, based on the the specs of the battery, I probably have another 3 to 4 years, before I see an actual degredation, unless if I change my charging behavior..

I'm also pretty confident the number is accurate, because I have kept a log of every charge, and miles driven since I purchased the car, and I'm still within 2 miles of the first day of purchase on a regular full charge...

The moral of the story is, does it matter?, because after 10 years, be it they are at full capacity or 50% capacity, or 10%, the pack will be useless regardless ....

cheers .....

 

[fromport]

The moral of the story is, does it matter?, because after 10 years, be it they are at full capacity or 50% capacity, or 10%, the pack will be useless regardless ....
cheers .....

Compared to laptops, our rav4ev has a great thermal controlled bms.
The fact we don't charge it to 100% all the time (compared to laptop batteries) which in the last 10% start to induce heat, gives us a lot of advantage to those laptop batteries.
I think if you charge it to the normal levels, and don't discharge the last 20% (stop just before the low battery light would come on)
I think you have years and years of usage with minimum capacity loss.

 

[miimura]

I wish laptops would provide a function to only charge to 80%. That would make those batteries last a lot longer.

 

[fromport]

I wish laptops would provide a function to only charge to 80%. That would make those batteries last a lot longer.

Yes, selectable in software.
Wouldn't mind that on phones as well