EVSE J1772 Compatibility Thread for RAV4 EV

[SeattleRav4]

Has anyone gotten a copy of the 5000 mile service checklist for the RAV4 EV? I am assuming one exists but have not yet paid the money to access the Toyota website (and apparently that is the only way to get one) so I am only assuming. It makes sense since ICE vehicles have them.
It would be instructive to know what the service check so that (geeky) owners could watch for any signs.

 

[Dsinned]

Thanks SeaMonster. As Tony requested, the name of your servicing dealer would be nice to know, so that when any of the rest of us take our RAV4 EVs in for service, we can inform our local service writer who to call for additional details on how to fix the same problem.

SeattleRav4, I think the only things on the checklist for your first service are rotating the tires, all fuild level will be checked, and probably a data dump from all diagnostic ports, including the super secret Tesla connector which I believe is under the floorboard behind the front passenger seat. I think the latter is to keep an eye on all the Tesla batteries while operating in the field over the long term. Hopefully, there will be trouble codes stored to identify the failures to properly perform scheduled charges.

I have an appt next week at my local servicing dealer for something unrelated next Thursday, so I will ask about any field computer "updates" that might be available.

 

[SeaMonster]

So the news from Toyota... or at least from my dealer. I can get my car back tomorrow. Nothing is fixed, but the dealer has now gotten Toyota everything that Toyota thinks they need. According to my service rep, Toyota is very aware (finally) that this issue is real and affecting many people. Toyota says that they will have "something" for this issue either by the end of next week or the middle of the following week. I wish I had more information, but I am at least pleased to have a commitment to provide "something" by a near term date.

Oh yeah... I don't think it matters, but my dealer is Toyota Marin. Since Toyota knows about this, I would imagine anyone else could tell their dealer that Toyota knows about the issue, and mentioning Toyota Marin will likely not add any benefit.

You can be sure I will be following up on this and I will report back anything I learn.

 

[Dsinned]

Glad to hear they are making progress . . . hopefully you should know something more definite before the end of this month. Much appreciated for keeping us all in the loop.

 

[SeaMonster]

Interesting... I found this on the web
http://www.autospies.com/news/Early...bility-Issues-Can-Leave-Them-Powerless-73277/

It doesn't appear to be the same thing, but there is so little detail that its hard to know what this is. Just dropping it here as an FYI.

 

[Dsinned]

In my case, the "workaround" for the delay start scheduling problem is to set the departure time 3 hours ahead of the actual time. For example, if the actual time I want it to be completed is 7am the next morning, I set the scheduler for 10am on that same morning for the would-be departure time. This seems to work because my scheduled charge usually completes automatically 3 hours earlier than the time I have scheduled for departure. Actually it complete about 3 hour and 15 minutes earlier, perhaps so it has that extra 15, while still plugged in, to pre-condition the passenger compartment using the climate control w/o consuming battery power.

Has anybody else successfully used the same "workaround"?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Has anybody else successfully used the same "workaround"?

I would let the cells balance at 100% charge at least once a month (which means giving the automation time after reaching 100% charge to properly discharge the highest cells, and recharge back to 100%), but otherwise, ya, I that works.

I'm more concerned with paying mucho dinero for charging outside 12am-5am "super off peak", so I set every morning for a 7am departure, which seems to work. Rarely has it started before 12am, and never goes past 5am.

I'm building a timer for the Clipper Creek right now, and intend to transition to an EVSE timer, instead of the car one. The general plan was a basic lamp timer (using GE 15313 from Home Depot) to switch a 120v/12v transformer, which will power a 12v relay, which will open and close the timer pin(s) to ground on the Clipper Creek.

Unfortunately, the GE 15313 won't work with a transformer. It's using the neutral on the lamp to complete the circuit, and I'm not using a light. So, on to the next idea. Maybe the GE 15312, which uses a neutral.

 

[SeaMonster]

While my car sometimes complete a scheduled charge hours earlier, that doesn't happen to me regularly. It often finishes charging 1/2 hour before my scheduled departure, which I consider "on time". Sometimes my car skips charging, sometimes it starts and completes hours early, and sometimes it is "just right". While your workaround seems to serve you well, I don't think its for me. But I do think it is quite telling to the problem at hand.

 

[Dsinned]

There is definitely a difference between how Toyota (Tesla?) and GM handle a scheduled charge. Using the same Leviton charger on both, a scheduled charge works flawlessly on my 2012 Chevy Volt, i.e. completes ~15 minutes before a scheduled departure time, but does not work the same expected way on my RAV4 EV, always completing several hours earlier. This tells me there is something wrong with the RAV4 EV, not in the EVSE.

 

[SeaMonster]

Here's an update on my efforts with Toyota. They don't have a solution, but they are sending a recording device. Next week I go in to have them install it, and then they release me out into the wild. (Kind of like Marlin Perkins tagging wild animal and then releasing them for study.) They want me to manually record any charging errors and anomalies and then they will match that up to what the computer was recording. I am pleased because I have been convinced (and told them this 4 weeks ago) that they won't nail down this issue without recording exactly what the car's charging system is doing throughout the entire night.

I'll take photos and share them...

 

[TonyWilliams]

Could you have your service guy send a note to my service guy to update him on this issue?

[email protected]

 

[Dsinned]

Thanks for the update SeaMonster.

I find it a bit odd that they want to use a recorder on your car. Don't they have their own RAV4 EV to experiment with, and isn't there at least someone in the Toyota-Tesla engineering community that can easily replicate this problem themselves? It almost seems like by the time they get around to taking this seriously, all 2600 cars are going to be "defective" before anything is done to resolve the problem.

 

[SeaMonster]

Tony, my service person doesn't know anything useful on this issue. She is working with Toyota and Toyota is working with Tesla. She doesn't have any EV diag tools. I think they are quite competent, but the EV is different and they just relay information to Toyota and call in Toyota/Tesla as needed. The reason I am bringing my car in next week instead of today is that Toyota has to send their techs over with the recorder and they will install it, and apparently Toyota doesn't have the device yet. All my dealer could tell your guy is that I have charging issues and finally Toyota is taking it somewhat seriously. I'll definitely let you know here as soon as they learn anything.

Dsinned, the problem is that they can't recreate it. They had my car for more than a week and never reproduced it. During that time, I had their Rav4EV and I DID reproduce the problem quite successfully. Also when they had my car, they didn't have the Tesla diag tools. (So even if they had recreated it, they wouldn't have learned much.) Tesla visited and watched the car for a bit, but they didn't leave their tools when they left. Considering the politics, I think it is a very good sign that between Tesla and Toyota they have agreed to let some diagnostic tool out into the wild. They know they will capture much better "real world" data if they install it in my car than if they install it in their car in their shop.

 

[Dsinned]

I'm pretty sure this is a software "bug" in the computer that interfaces with the onboard battery charger (AC-DC converter module). All anybody needs to do to "see" the problem is monitor the AC line to the charging station, with an 240VAC Power Line Monitor used by electrical test labs. I believe this "tester" can be rented out as well. You just plug it in series with the charging station (assuming you have a plugin AC connection like my Leviton EVB32) and perform the usual charging operations. By doing that during an overnight scheduled charge, you can capture (voltage and current) "events" if anything unusual occurs on the AC line. For example, the line voltage may abruptly fluctuate, or completely drop out. Or, you can use it to see when the charge completed (and if prematurely), and the time of the event occurred as recorded by the AC line tester.

This just confirms the problem, but to really understand what is happening, a Tesla (or Toyota) Engineer will need to dig into the code that controls/monitors the onboard HV AC-DC converter module. This is all nitty gritty electronics and software related stuff going on inside the vehicle.

Hopefully, the data logging recorder they are loaning to you can "see" what is going on inside the RAV4 EV's computer(s) during a scheduled charging operation. Good luck and PLEASE do keep us all informed. TIA.

 

[reeler]

When I bought my RAV4, there was great concern about compatibility with all EVSEs. If you look at all the compatibility problems with many different units you will see why. The dealer, FWIW, said they were aware of the issues and would have a software update down the line. There must be someone at Toyota working on this.

 

[Dsinned]

I suspect the real holdup here is the liaison and B2B internal communication protocols between Toyota and Tesla. But with each passing day, more and more RAV4s get added to the list of "to be fixed" under Toyota's WARRANTY, which also takes away from what little profits, if any, remain on an otherwise phenomenal EV. This is probably not considered that serious of a problem, but the smart thing to do is put a "hold" on further production. This car is not selling well anyway. :mrgreen:

 

[Bassman]

AeroVironment L2 unit will charge , but doesn't work with the delay charging. Plug the J1772 in, the vehicle connected light lights up, but 15 to 20 minutes later it goes off and acts as if the vehicle is not plugged in. Never have problems with the LEAF charging timers. Toyota needs to fix the charging software. This is ridiculous.

Follow up 2/22/13: Even though the vehicle connected light goes out on the AV EVSE unit and I get a notification that the cable is disconnected or has a connection issue, the car still charged on delay, but finished 3.5 hours before my departure time. So much for Pre-climate.

 

[Sport Mode]

SeaMonster:

Any word on your charging issue?

Was the recording device ever installed?

 

[Dsinned]

I'm sure SeaMonster will give us an update soon, but I believe the data recording device was used on his car and is currently under analysis within an appropriate Tech Support or Engineering group within the bowels of Toyota and/or Tesla. No results yet though. It's only been about a week since the data recorder was retrieved for further analysis. Perhaps we only have a little longer to wait.

 

[SeaMonster]

SeaMonster:

Any word on your charging issue?

Was the recording device ever installed?

There are now multiple threads on this topic and I updated in this one.

The recording device was removed on Wednesday. It went in the week before. Now they are looking at the data and hopefully finding something. I will keep checking in with them and I will report in the thread I linked above.