Electric motor assembly internal failure

[10basetom]

I think my 2013 Rav4 EV finally bit the bullet the past weekend when I was driving on the freeway and the motor suddenly died (pressing on accelerator did nothing) with a "Check EV System - Have Your Vehicle Checked by a Dealership Immediately" message. Needless to say, this was very stressful since I had my family with me and needed a way to quickly get to the shoulder without causing an accident as my car was quickly losing speed.

After getting towed to AutoNation Toyota Irvine on Sunday, I finally heard back from them: they said after three days consulting with a Toyota technician, they've identified the root cause to a faulty electric motor assembly. UPDATE: the service tech just emailed me the error codes:

Internal failure to Electric motor
Codes p312f, c1259

This is the quote they emailed me to get this fixed:

Labor $1950.00
Parts $5940.41
Tax $460.35
TOTAL $8350.76

Ouch. This is not something we can afford, and I have already dropped $866 on this car last year for a battery charging issue that I later realized was misdiagnosed. I'm not even sure where to go to get a second opinion since people who specialize in this model are few and far between.

What are my options if you were in my shoes? After discussing with the dealership and a buddy of mine, here's what I have so far:

- Sell the car to AutoNation
- Try to get the auto insurance to pay for the repairs
- Scrap the car and sell the EV battery pack
- Scrap the car for total loss

 

[alflash]

I think my 2013 Rav4 EV finally bit the bullet the past weekend when I was driving on the freeway and the motor suddenly died (pressing on accelerator did nothing) with a "Check EV System - Have Your Vehicle Checked by a Dealership Immediately" message. Needless to say, this was very stressful since I had my family with me and needed a way to quickly get to the shoulder without causing an accident as my car was quickly losing speed.

After getting towed to AutoNation Toyota Irvine on Sunday, I finally heard back from them: they said after three days consulting with a Toyota technician, they've identified the root cause to a faulty electric motor assembly. UPDATE: the service tech just emailed me the error codes:

Internal failure to Electric motor - is not correct - alflash
Codes p312f, c1259[/i]

This is the quote they emailed me to get this fixed:

Labor $1950.00
Parts $5940.41
Tax $460.35
TOTAL $8350.76

Ouch. This is not something we can afford, and I have already dropped $866 on this car last year for a battery charging issue that I later realized was misdiagnosed. I'm not even sure where to go to get a second opinion since people who specialize in this model are few and far between.

What are my options if you were in my shoes? After discussing with the dealership and a buddy of mine, here's what I have so far:

- Sell the car to AutoNation
- Try to get the auto insurance to pay for the repairs
- Scrap the car and sell the EV battery pack
- Scrap the car for total loss

I sympathize you.
The P312f code, which is stored in the Toyota EV System memory, is only a consequence of a malfunction in the Tesla systems of your vehicle.

Same as DTC C1259 / 58 = "EV Control System Regenerative Malfunction".

It is necessary to diagnose Tesla systems, in other words, read its fault codes, system parameters and more.
Can you describe all the symptoms of a malfunction in this form? https://alflash.com.ua/service/rav4ev-precheck-customize-list-2/

CID Calibration of your RAV4EV?

 

[10basetom]

I think my 2013 Rav4 EV finally bit the bullet the past weekend when I was driving on the freeway and the motor suddenly died (pressing on accelerator did nothing) with a "Check EV System - Have Your Vehicle Checked by a Dealership Immediately" message. Needless to say, this was very stressful since I had my family with me and needed a way to quickly get to the shoulder without causing an accident as my car was quickly losing speed.

After getting towed to AutoNation Toyota Irvine on Sunday, I finally heard back from them: they said after three days consulting with a Toyota technician, they've identified the root cause to a faulty electric motor assembly. UPDATE: the service tech just emailed me the error codes:

Internal failure to Electric motor - is not correct - alflash
Codes p312f, c1259[/i]

This is the quote they emailed me to get this fixed:

Labor $1950.00
Parts $5940.41
Tax $460.35
TOTAL $8350.76

Ouch. This is not something we can afford, and I have already dropped $866 on this car last year for a battery charging issue that I later realized was misdiagnosed. I'm not even sure where to go to get a second opinion since people who specialize in this model are few and far between.

What are my options if you were in my shoes? After discussing with the dealership and a buddy of mine, here's what I have so far:

- Sell the car to AutoNation
- Try to get the auto insurance to pay for the repairs
- Scrap the car and sell the EV battery pack
- Scrap the car for total loss

I sympathize you.
The P312f code, which is stored in the Toyota EV System memory, is only a consequence of a malfunction in the Tesla systems of your vehicle.

Same as DTC C1259 / 58 = "EV Control System Regenerative Malfunction".

It is necessary to diagnose Tesla systems, in other words, read its fault codes, system parameters and more.
Can you describe all the symptoms of a malfunction in this form? https://alflash.com.ua/service/rav4ev-precheck-customize-list-2/

CID Calibration of your RAV4EV?

Thanks so much for this info, alflash! Where I'm at now: the car is still sitting at the dealership. I'm trying to see if they are willing to return the car to Toyota for repairs as part of the recall mentioned in https://www.autonews.com/article/20150312/OEM11/150319956/toyota-recalls-rav4-evs-to-repair-tesla-component since that's pretty much what I experienced (car switched to N, immediately losing driving power).

 

[alflash]

...Thanks so much for this info, alflash! Where I'm at now: the car is still sitting at the dealership. I'm trying to see if they are willing to return the car to Toyota for repairs as part of the recall mentioned in https://www.autonews.com/article/20150312/OEM11/150319956/toyota-recalls-rav4-evs-to-repair-tesla-component since that's pretty much what I experienced (car switched to N, immediately losing driving power).

Yes, first of all, they should have checked the CID of your vehicle.
For example as shown in
https://youtu.be/xHmTFph9mNA

 

[10basetom]

...Thanks so much for this info, alflash! Where I'm at now: the car is still sitting at the dealership. I'm trying to see if they are willing to return the car to Toyota for repairs as part of the recall mentioned in https://www.autonews.com/article/20150312/OEM11/150319956/toyota-recalls-rav4-evs-to-repair-tesla-component since that's pretty much what I experienced (car switched to N, immediately losing driving power).

Yes, first of all, they should have checked the CID of your vehicle.
For example as shown in
https://youtu.be/xHmTFph9mNA

From what the service manager told me, they could not power the car on and had no idea what was wrong with it, so they went back and forth with a Toyota tech over the phone for three days and concluded to replace electric motor assembly. You are probably more qualified to diagnose the EV than the dealership.

 

[alflash]

... From what the service manager told me, they could not power the car on and had no idea what was wrong with it, so they went back and forth with a Toyota tech over the phone for three days and concluded to replace electric motor assembly ...

As I understand it, the contents of Toyota Safety Recall F0I * "2012-2014 Model Year RAV4 Electric Vehicle (EV) EV Traction Motor Assembly":

• Remedy
  Toyota dealers will update the drive inverter ECU software. This update will be performed at No Charge to the vehicle’s owner...

and without limiting the age and mileage of the vehicles.
*

• Condition
  In the involved RAV4 EV’s, components in the Electric Vehicle Traction Motor Assembly, which is part of the propulsion system, may cause the vehicle to shift to “neutral” due to a software issue. This condition will also trigger a “Check EV System” warning message on the instrument panel and turn on a malfunction indicator lamp.
  If the vehicle shifts to “neutral”, this will result in a complete loss of drive power, which can increase the risk of a crash.

 

[10basetom]

I tried to argue as best I could that this car should have been recalled but they keep coming back with "sorry, we looked up your VIN and it did not qualify for the recall you mentioned". I feel like they are giving me the run-around, and if I go down this road I will end up like @SpicyUnagi in http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2491 especially in this pandemic where car dealerships are struggling because people are driving less and they make most of their money from car repairs and servicing (I can tell they're hurting because where there were always long lines at the service garage before now there's hardly any lines).

As much as I love my EV, I simply don't have the energy and time to deal with this so if my auto insurance doesn't cover the repairs I'm just going to take my losses. Hard lesson learned: if you buy a used EV and you're not aiflash or Tony Williams, then be sure to pay extra for the extended warranty!

 

[alflash]

I tried to argue as best I could that this car should have been recalled but they keep coming back with "sorry, we looked up your VIN and it did not qualify for the recall you mentioned". I feel like they are giving me the run-around, and if I go down this road I will end up like @SpicyUnagi in http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2491 especially in this pandemic where car dealerships are struggling because people are driving less and they make most of their money from car repairs and servicing (I can tell they're hurting because where there were always long lines at the service garage before now there's hardly any lines).

As much as I love my EV, I simply don't have the energy and time to deal with this so if my auto insurance doesn't cover the repairs I'm just going to take my losses. Hard lesson learned: if you buy a used EV and you're not aiflash or Tony Williams, then be sure to pay extra for the extended warranty!

Give the VIN-code of your vehicle and I can find out if it needs updating.

Note. Reprogramming of this vehicles (according to safety Recall F0I) is done not by the VIN-code, but after checking* the actual number (CID) of the version of the installed software.
Reprogramming of this car (according to the recall) is done not by the VIN-code, but after checking * the actual number (CID) of the version of the installed software e.g. http://alflash.com.ua/phpBB2/download/file.php?id=2577 .
If version 1.3.101 (Tesla) and Toyota version 896B34201500/896B54201100 (Main/Sub) are installed, then the Update is not needed.


* Available through the Toyota Techstream dealership program, which is legally available to anyone

 

[hokiematt]

From what the service manager told me, they could not power the car on and had no idea what was wrong with it, so they went back and forth with a Toyota tech over the phone for three days and concluded to replace electric motor assembly. You are probably more qualified to diagnose the EV than the dealership.

If you can get access to your RAV, it would be helpful to know what the service manager means here: does the car have 12V power and show ON in the instrument cluster? Will it go to READY mode, or does READY flash?

If valid, the C1259 code does generally indicate a drive unit internal fault. I would suggest the first step would be to pull the speed sensor located on the passenger side of the motor, to check for coolant infiltration from leaky internal seals. If the end of the sensor is wet, you may be looking at a damaged inverter.

 

[10basetom]

From what the service manager told me, they could not power the car on and had no idea what was wrong with it, so they went back and forth with a Toyota tech over the phone for three days and concluded to replace electric motor assembly. You are probably more qualified to diagnose the EV than the dealership.

If you can get access to your RAV, it would be helpful to know what the service manager means here: does the car have 12V power and show ON in the instrument cluster? Will it go to READY mode, or does READY flash?

If valid, the C1259 code does generally indicate a drive unit internal fault. I would suggest the first step would be to pull the speed sensor located on the passenger side of the motor, to check for coolant infiltration from leaky internal seals. If the end of the sensor is wet, you may be looking at a damaged inverter.

Thanks for the troubleshooting advice. Unfortunately I don't have access to the car anymore since it's at the dealership still. If the dealership replicated what I experienced, then they were not able to get car into Ready mode as it automatically shifts to Neutral with "Check EV System" and "Check Power Steering System" errors when you press the power button. I don't recall Ready flashing. They said they charged the 12V and it made no difference.

 

[10basetom]

Latest update: my auto insurance does not cover mechanical failures, so now I'm out of options. My next plan is to tow the car from the dealership back to my home to try and troubleshoot it on my own or sell it for spare parts.

 

[alflash]

Latest update: my auto insurance does not cover mechanical failures, so now I'm out of options. My next plan is to tow the car from the dealership back to my home to try and troubleshoot it on my own or sell it for spare parts.

For this Vehicle: Safety Recall "F0I, 2012-2014 Model Year RAV4 Electric Vehicle (EV), EV Traction Motor Assembly" have Completion Status: Completed.
Date of First Vehicle Use: 08/21/2013, Production Date: 08/08/2013.

 

[10basetom]

Latest update: my auto insurance does not cover mechanical failures, so now I'm out of options. My next plan is to tow the car from the dealership back to my home to try and troubleshoot it on my own or sell it for spare parts.

For this Vehicle: Safety Recall "F0I, 2012-2014 Model Year RAV4 Electric Vehicle (EV), EV Traction Motor Assembly" have Completion Status: Completed.
Date of First Vehicle Use: 08/21/2013, Production Date: 08/08/2013.

Yes, that's what Toyota corporate told me as well. Unfortunately, there's only a 1yr warranty for recalls, so I'm out of luck. I'm planning to put this on eBay this weekend for spare parts starting at $5200 (the price scrappers have offered for the car).

 

[alflash]

... For this Vehicle: Safety Recall "F0I, 2012-2014 Model Year RAV4 Electric Vehicle (EV), EV Traction Motor Assembly" have Completion Status: Completed.
Date of First Vehicle Use: 08/21/2013, Production Date: 08/08/2013.

Yes, that's what Toyota corporate told me as well. Unfortunately, there's only a 1yr warranty for recalls, so I'm out of luck. I'm planning to put this on eBay this weekend for spare parts starting at $5200 (the price scrappers have offered for the car).

Do you have documented evidence that this recall is warranted for 1 year?

But in any case, this recall your vehicle was made on 09/30/2015, Dealer Name: FINDLAY TOYOTA AND SCION and its Tesla systems have CID 1.3.101.
I suppose that the alleged "specialists" there did not check this number of the actual software of your car.

 

[10basetom]

... For this Vehicle: Safety Recall "F0I, 2012-2014 Model Year RAV4 Electric Vehicle (EV), EV Traction Motor Assembly" have Completion Status: Completed.
Date of First Vehicle Use: 08/21/2013, Production Date: 08/08/2013.

Yes, that's what Toyota corporate told me as well. Unfortunately, there's only a 1yr warranty for recalls, so I'm out of luck. I'm planning to put this on eBay this weekend for spare parts starting at $5200 (the price scrappers have offered for the car).

Do you have documented evidence that this recall is warranted for 1 year?

But in any case, this recall your vehicle was made on 09/30/2015, Dealer Name: FINDLAY TOYOTA AND SCION and its Tesla systems have CID 1.3.101.
I suppose that the alleged "specialists" there did not check this number of the actual software of your car.

They didn't provide a document saying recalls have 1yr warranties on them, but they told me over the phone.

Frankly, I have not had a good experience at any of the local dealerships (Tustin and Irvine). I lost over $850 from Tustin for replacing charge port assembly that didn't fix the 19-flash charging issue, and now Irvine for obviously being clueless about root cause of current issue and not wanting to do anything with the car anymore (though they did grab $250 from me for the diagnostics). They basically suck money from your wallet without guarantee of a real fix of the root cause. I think part of the problem is there are fewer and fewer techs who know this car intimately.

 

[10basetom]

Do you guys believe in miracles? When the tow truck came to the dealership to tow it back to my house, the Toyota guy entered the car to reverse out to make the tow hookup easier. I was like "dude don't bother it's totally dead so we need to push it out", but before I had a chance to finish that thought he casually turns on the car and reverses out! He asked me what's wrong with the car, it looked and ran fine and there were no errors on the dashboard. I was speechless, but to be on the safe side I had it towed home anyway.

What issues fix themselves with time? The only thing I can think of is that something was wet (as @hokiematt suggested) and then it dried up. In the coming weeks I will buy a 12V battery maintainer because I rarely drive this car since working from home. After that I plan to start driving it around the neighborhood to see whether the dreaded "loss of driving power & shifting to N" issue happens again.

 

[alflash]

Do you guys believe in miracles? When the tow truck came to the dealership to tow it back to my house, the Toyota guy entered the car to reverse out to make the tow hookup easier. I was like "dude don't bother it's totally dead so we need to push it out", but before I had a chance to finish that thought he casually turns on the car and reverses out! He asked me what's wrong with the car, it looked and ran fine and there were no errors on the dashboard. I was speechless, but to be on the safe side I had it towed home anyway.

What issues fix themselves with time? The only thing I can think of is that something was wet (as @hokiematt suggested) and then it dried up. In the coming weeks I will buy a 12V battery maintainer because I rarely drive this car since working from home. After that I plan to start driving it around the neighborhood to see whether the dreaded "loss of driving power & shifting to N" issue happens again.

Their comment on the self "fixing/elimination" the problem?

Their comment relative to the previous recommendation?

...UPDATE: the service tech just emailed me the error codes: Internal failure to Electric motor, Codes p312f, c1259
This is the quote they emailed me to get this fixed:
Labor $1950.00
Parts $5940.41
Tax $460.35
TOTAL $8350.76