Coolant Delete

[Konduit EV]

Hello all! Konduit EV here (formerly known as QC Charge), Id like to share with everyone why it is an absolute must to get a Coolant Delete installed on your Rav 4, if you haven't already. I hate to beat a dead horse as I know this is a frequented subject, but this is more oriented towards those who are on the fence about getting it installed. Or to those who don't truly understand the severity of not getting a Coolant Delete installed immediately. Long story short, the factory seal that is installed in the coolant manifold and seals around the rotor fails really at any given time. We’ve seen it in as little as 11,000 miles and the result of such is catastrophic if left un treated. Coolant will enter your stator and has the ability to gunk up your rotor causing a jerking motion while trying to accelerate. Eventually your stator will short out and have little or no isolation. Usually before that happens the coolant will make its way to the inverter and render your Rav 4 useless. As most of us know these motors are few and far between and almost impossible to get your hands on as well as very expensive. Save yourself the headache and have some piece of mind by installing the coolant Delete. It doesn't even have to be the coolant delete that we sell, we just want to get the word out. Regarding the coolant deletes, we will have a good stock by the end of the month that will be for sale. Thanks for the read! Here are a few videos showing some motors with the common failure.

Phone # (760) 798 0342

1315 Hotspring Way Suite 102
Vista California
92081

Jacob Shellnutt
Konduit Ev
Co Owner and Technician

 

[alflash]

The maximum probability of coolant leakage into the engine occurs at a mileage of approximately 60-80 thousand miles and at an age of this vehiclee over 8-10 years. And this is despite the fact that Tesla used conventional single-lip seals.
In addition, the current 10-12 year old RAV4s have a sharply decreasing SOC and it is unlikely that each of them will survive the next 10 years / 60 Kmiles.

If you do not mind, answer the question. Why not limit the repair to replacin the damaged conventional rubber seal with a Teflon three-lip seal (of course with the replacement of ceramic bearings, drying the stator and other necessary actions)?

Surely, such high-quality work will extend the service life of the engine for at least another 10 years. But without spending money on the "immortality pill"...

And a question out of curiosity
If the videos shown are not advertising, then what is the fate of this vehicle, in particular, its inverter printed circuit boards* and, especially, the inverter "brain" board?
Will you show a photo of this board?

Thsnks in advance.

p.s. Have the effects of worsening rotor cooling been checked after such a significant change in its cooling system?
Am I right in understanding that you believe that Tesla engineers used rotor liquid cooling in vain and that it can be neglected?

*

 

[ce2078]

I can tell you that bright blue coolant coming from the inverter isn't the norm. It's typically a brown/green sludge from copper and iron corrosion. In my option this was either staged to make the point or had a severe, immediate flood, the latter of which is very rare. Plus, if that control board was powered at all while in that much coolant there would be immediate signs - the coolant is quite conductive.

Of all the LDU's we recover and rebuild (yes they can be fixed), the coolant leak is cumulative over time. The coolant seal leaks from day 1. The unlucky ones get iso issues early from a poorly sealed stator. Those that have a well sealed stator will either get sludge build up from dried coolant that causes jerking, or the inverter will finally get taken out.

The only true 'death' of a LDU is the control board. Everything else can be replaced. It's only this control board that is proprietary to the RAV4 (and we are working on a way to reprogram the Tesla ones).

We do not do the coolant delete, yet our motors have lasted at least 150k miles and still dry and running with perfect isolation. How? We install a weep hole just past the leaky seal, preventing coolant from getting to the bearing.

We have seen many, many heat banded rotors with coolant flowing. Taking the coolant away means they run even hotter. What that means to the life of the bearings is still yet to be found out.

As for lower battery range. Not only can we repair a faulty cell, but we are working on a larger replacement battery.

 

[Konduit EV]

The maximum probability of coolant leakage into the engine occurs at a mileage of approximately 60-80 thousand miles and at an age of this vehiclee over 8-10 years. And this is despite the fact that Tesla used conventional single-lip seals.
In addition, the current 10-12 year old RAV4s have a sharply decreasing SOC and it is unlikely that each of them will survive the next 10 years / 60 Kmiles.

If you do not mind, answer the question. Why not limit the repair to replacin the damaged conventional rubber seal with a Teflon three-lip seal (of course with the replacement of ceramic bearings, drying the stator and other necessary actions)?

Surely, such high-quality work will extend the service life of the engine for at least another 10 years. But without spending money on the "immortality pill"...

And a question out of curiosity
If the videos shown are not advertising, then what is the fate of this vehicle, in particular, its inverter printed circuit boards* and, especially, the inverter "brain" board?
Will you show a photo of this board?

Thsnks in advance.

p.s. Have the effects of worsening rotor cooling been checked after such a significant change in its cooling system?
Am I right in understanding that you believe that Tesla engineers used rotor liquid cooling in vain and that it can be neglected?

*
View attachment 788
View attachment 787

Hello, Alflash, thanks for the response. To start off answering your question regarding the replacement of the rubber seal to the 3 lipped teflon seal. The reason this isn't common practice here at our shop (doesn't mean we don't do it if a coolant delete isn't wanted) is strictly due to the fact that it is a temporary fix to a persisting problem. Whether it be from corrosion/pitting to the rotor where the seal meets the rotor or the fact that the seal will ultimately meet its untimely demise. This is reason enough for us to steer clear from just replacing the seal with a new one. When it comes to warranty we don't feel comfortable with replacing a known weak point with a slightly better alternative, hoping it doesn't come back in for service. In our opinion it is best to just "delete" the possibility of the seal ever failing. Also as we know the replacement of the seal is not as easy as we all hoped. Even being a shop who specializes in the Tesla LDU's and all that comes with it, by the time the seal has been removed and replaced (heating the coolant manifold and freezing the new seal) it is almost as expensive as getting the coolant delete in the first place. There is no additional labor involved when doing a full rebuild to add a coolant delete, whereas replacing the seal is time, and time is money in the case of a customer having the work done. Regarding your question on whether this post is an advertisement, we are a business and are transparent in that fact. This is a is a kill two birds with one stone post, by doing so we're bringing additional awareness to the common failure while offering our solution to fix this problem. The fate of this vehicle is as expected, the inverter is toast. The car had been sitting for a good while, as it was being used as a parts car if needed. The reasoning for the bright blue coolant instead of the usual greenish brown coolant coming out of the inverter ports is due to the topping off of the coolant reservoir while it sat after being diagnosed with a leaky seal. The original fluid that had leaked into the inverter had already been drained months prior and upon seeing an empty reservoir in the "engine bay" more coolant was added. Ultimately, leaking right past the seal and collecting in the inverter housing. The car was past running condition, so the coolant that leaked into the motor was never sloshed and spun around to turn it green. I would like to say that starting out as a new business, we are not into the practice of falsifying videos nor misleading the public. The foundation of our shop is built upon honesty and integrity. Customer relations and satisfaction is the most important aspect of our business. When I am back in the shop on Monday I am happy to take off the inverter housing and show you the damages done to the inverter. To answer your last question regarding the cooling of the rotor (or lack thereof) we are going on 150+ motors that have had the coolant delete installed and not one has comeback with overheating issues or premature bearing wear due to increased temperatures. This includes performance Teslas and LDU's installed in drifter/race oriented vehicles. Although this is a test of time and we will see the effects later down the road. Most of any innovations made, may have drawbacks that aren't immediately known. I do not think the Tesla engineers idea of rotor cooling was in vain but more so that additional cooling is never a bad implementation on a motor that's byproduct is heat. That being said, I feel confident that it is a redundancy in the cooling system to better "protect" the motor from reaching temperatures that aren't ideal but is ultimately not needed. As far as getting temperature readings of the rotor and bearings with the coolant delete installed, this is something that we will be testing further in the near future. And of course, I will share all new data on this forum. I hope I answered your questions adequately and I appreciate you asking them. Thanks for the read.


Phone # (760) 798 0342

1315 Hotspring Way Suite 102
Vista California
92081

Jacob Shellnutt
Konduit Ev
Co Owner and Technician

 

[asavage]

Jacob, I went dry rotor 4k miles ago, and I installed a rudimentary IR temperature sensor that views the end of the rotor. So far, I haven't seen >235°F during normal driving, and someone using a different measurement method on a DIY LDU EV has measured 360°F. This temperature reading is taken at a part of the rotor that isn't all that close to the hot spot, but there should be a reasonably linear relationship with it.

---

Above, you say that you are starting out as a new business, though earlier you posted "formerly known as QCC", so I'm confused: is Tony Williams associated with your current business?

Are you supporting Tony's earlier products, such as JDemo (ie firmware fixes [1]) and warranty around rusty/overcrimped/overheated J1772 nozzles sold by QCC?

 

[asavage]

Ah, I see from your introduction that Tony isn't part of the former QCC anymore.

 

[Konduit EV]

Hello asavage, we'd love for you to reach out to us via our email or phone number, which I will supply at the bottom of this message. There, we will be able to converse about warranty concerns, as well as updates to the JdeMO system. Jumping back to the question on whether or not Tony is involved with our business in any capacity. The answer is no, he is no longer apart of QCC nor Konduit EV.

Phone# (760) 798 0342
Email: [email protected]
[email protected]

1315 Hotspring Way Suite 102
Vista California
92081

Jacob Shellnutt
Konduit Ev
Co Owner and Technician

 

[Pinballdan]

Hello, Alflash, thanks for the response. To start off answering your question regarding the replacement of the rubber seal to the 3 lipped teflon seal. The reason this isn't common practice here at our shop (doesn't mean we don't do it if a coolant delete isn't wanted) is strictly due to the fact that it is a temporary fix to a persisting problem. Whether it be from corrosion/pitting to the rotor where the seal meets the rotor or the fact that the seal will ultimately meet its untimely demise. This is reason enough for us to steer clear from just replacing the seal with a new one. When it comes to warranty we don't feel comfortable with replacing a known weak point with a slightly better alternative, hoping it doesn't come back in for service. In our opinion it is best to just "delete" the possibility of the seal ever failing. Also as we know the replacement of the seal is not as easy as we all hoped. Even being a shop who specializes in the Tesla LDU's and all that comes with it, by the time the seal has been removed and replaced (heating the coolant manifold and freezing the new seal) it is almost as expensive as getting the coolant delete in the first place. There is no additional labor involved when doing a full rebuild to add a coolant delete, whereas replacing the seal is time, and time is money in the case of a customer having the work done. Regarding your question on whether this post is an advertisement, we are a business and are transparent in that fact. This is a is a kill two birds with one stone post, by doing so we're bringing additional awareness to the common failure while offering our solution to fix this problem. The fate of this vehicle is as expected, the inverter is toast. The car had been sitting for a good while, as it was being used as a parts car if needed. The reasoning for the bright blue coolant instead of the usual greenish brown coolant coming out of the inverter ports is due to the topping off of the coolant reservoir while it sat after being diagnosed with a leaky seal. The original fluid that had leaked into the inverter had already been drained months prior and upon seeing an empty reservoir in the "engine bay" more coolant was added. Ultimately, leaking right past the seal and collecting in the inverter housing. The car was past running condition, so the coolant that leaked into the motor was never sloshed and spun around to turn it green. I would like to say that starting out as a new business, we are not into the practice of falsifying videos nor misleading the public. The foundation of our shop is built upon honesty and integrity. Customer relations and satisfaction is the most important aspect of our business. When I am back in the shop on Monday I am happy to take off the inverter housing and show you the damages done to the inverter. To answer your last question regarding the cooling of the rotor (or lack thereof) we are going on 150+ motors that have had the coolant delete installed and not one has comeback with overheating issues or premature bearing wear due to increased temperatures. This includes performance Teslas and LDU's installed in drifter/race oriented vehicles. Although this is a test of time and we will see the effects later down the road. Most of any innovations made, may have drawbacks that aren't immediately known. I do not think the Tesla engineers idea of rotor cooling was in vain but more so that additional cooling is never a bad implementation on a motor that's byproduct is heat. That being said, I feel confident that it is a redundancy in the cooling system to better "protect" the motor from reaching temperatures that aren't ideal but is ultimately not needed. As far as getting temperature readings of the rotor and bearings with the coolant delete installed, this is something that we will be testing further in the near future. And of course, I will share all new data on this forum. I hope I answered your questions adequately and I appreciate you asking them. Thanks for the read.


Phone # (760) 798 0342

1315 Hotspring Way Suite 102
Vista California
92081

Jacob Shellnutt
Konduit Ev
Co Owner and Technician

Tesla puts coolant delete on replacement drive units from the factory..Alex told me !

 

[Konduit EV]

Yes you are correct. Tesla has started including their own version of a coolant delete on newly manufactured LDU's, reaffirming my belief that cooling of the rotor is no longer a concern of theirs. This is good news in my book, as well as for every one who has had a coolant delete installed on their vehicle. Whether it be the Rav 4, Tesla, or the Mercedes B class.

Phone # (760) 798 0342

1315 Hotspring Way Suite 102
Vista California
92081

Jacob Shellnutt
Konduit Ev
Co Owner and Technician

 

[Pinballdan]

Yes you are correct. Tesla has started including their own version of a coolant delete on newly manufactured LDU's, reaffirming my belief that cooling of the rotor is no longer a concern of theirs. This is good news in my book, as well as for every one who has had a coolant delete installed on their vehicle. Whether it be the Rav 4, Tesla, or the Mercedes B class.

Phone # (760) 798 0342

1315 Hotspring Way Suite 102
Vista California
92081

Jacob Shellnutt
Konduit Ev
Co Owner and Technician

Yeah..My coolant delete is in the mail as we speak

 

[Rakesh Suresh]

If there is moisture (colorless) on the speed sensor, is doing a coolant delete sufficient or does the LDU also need to be serviced?

 

[alflash]

If there is moisture (colorless) on the speed sensor, is doing a coolant delete sufficient or does the LDU also need to be serviced?

Take a look at the possible consequences of coolant getting into the engine

 

[Rakesh Suresh]

Take a look at the possible consequences of coolant getting into the engine

Thanks. I had already watched this and am aware of the consequences, which is why I am asking this question. What I don't understand is if stopping the leak enough to prevent a catastrophic failure or is the failure imminent unless the LDU is also serviced. There is no evidence of corrosion at the moment on the speed sensor.

 

[Pinballdan]

Thanks. I had already watched this and am aware of the consequences, which is why I am asking this question. What I don't understand is if stopping the leak enough to prevent a catastrophic failure or is the failure imminent unless the LDU is also serviced. There is no evidence of corrosion at the moment on the speed sensor.

If you put on a coolant delete BEFORE seal fails then you have saved the LDU from the failure it WILL cause..

 

[alflash]

Thanks. I had already watched this and am aware of the consequences, which is why I am asking this question. What I don't understand is if stopping the leak enough to prevent a catastrophic failure or is the failure imminent unless the LDU is also serviced. There is no evidence of corrosion at the moment on the speed sensor.

Ok, if there are no traces of coolant on your speed sensor, for example as in

then several preventive measures are possible.

• Only replacing the seal on the right side of the engine.
• The advertised modernization/reconstruction/upgrade of the engine cooling system, the long-term consequences of which are unknown.
• "Electronic" way to check for leaks " ... There will also be an electronic water detector in the motor. This will be wired to an LED light and/or a buzzer to be mounted in the drivers view (probably on the dash, left of the steering wheel). For example, as shown (use subtitles with auto-translation) in
• and in the links from its description.
• A mechanical method of protection is shown in
• and the result in

 

[asavage]

I've been offline for a week (OS upgrade failure).

Hello asavage, we'd love for you to reach out to us via our email or phone number, which I will supply at the bottom of this message. There, we will be able to converse about warranty concerns, as well as updates to the JdeMO system. Jumping back to the question on whether or not Tony is involved with our business in any capacity. The answer is no, he is no longer apart of QCC nor Konduit EV.

I have no current/ongoing concerns with QCC or its successor; I posed these questions for the "community", as QCC (Tony, specifically) has been . . . less than professional with some of us in his business dealings, and you have an opportunity to re-brand not only the name but the reputation.

Alex's operation in Portland, Ore. is geographically closer to me and people I typically advise here in the greater Seattle area, but your potential customer base is largely located closer to your shop. I am always looking for firms to send EVs and EV owners to for repairs, and because you are associated with the former QCC, with which it is fair to say I have a beef, I have to ask about how you handle warranty issues and firmware updates, to ascertain whether I think you'll treat any customers I send your way in a manner better than your predecessor.

I hope that clarifies the intent of my questions above.

 

[asavage]

If there is moisture (colorless) on the speed sensor, is doing a coolant delete sufficient or does the LDU also need to be serviced?

It depends.
https://www.myrav4ev.com/threads/speed-sensor-check-for-fluid.2667/post-31401