Convince me to buy this car over a LEAF

[mikeEmike]

With the exception of the optional Chadmo, I can't think of any reason to get a leaf over the Rav 4 EV.

Maybe leather?

Rav 4 EV is so much more vehicle.

I can think of a few reasons:
1) More energy efficient
2) Quieter and smoother ride
3) Starts at $28K (almost half the RAV4EV MSRP) before any credits and rebates
4) Only one manufacturer you have to deal with when problems arise
5) It's a production car, not a compliance car
6) Sold by a manufacturer who is committed to being an EV manufacturer, at least for the foreseeable future
7) It can be serviced a lot easier if you live outside of CA

That said, the RAV4EV is a lot more vehicle, but it's not for everybody. Neither is the LEAF, for that matter. If you need the range for repeat trips, as the OP does in this case, or if live in a climate with extreme temperatures, or if you need the extra cabin space, to me there's no debate...go with the RAV4EV.

 

[mhkp]

I'll also chime up with the Nissan Dealer recharging network. Nissan is investing heavily into placing DC and Level 2 chargers at many Nissan Dealers. This was a major selling point for me when considering the LEAF. Free electricity and chargers maintained by a large manufacturer.

I know someone mentioned some dissent among dealers about this, but they will get in line when they understand Nissan's strategy is dependent on EV sale.

 

[dipper]

I worry about the battery with the Leaf though... hence the Nissan battery warranty. If Nissan added TMS, then I lean on the Leaf side (a lot more because of price). Without it, I ended up with the Rav4ev.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I worry about the battery with the Leaf though... hence the Nissan battery warranty. If Nissan added TMS, then I lean on the Leaf side (a lot more because of price). Without it, I ended up with the Rav4ev.

Nissan has no intention to add TMS.

 

[ground_gainer]

Why not? It's the biggest complaint against the LEAF. Is it to get more people to sign onto their expensive battery replacement program?

 

[Ampster]

Why not? It's the biggest complaint against the LEAF. Is it to get more people to sign onto their expensive battery replacement program?

To add TMS at this point would be admitting their mistake. That may be hard to do for them, unless some cars catch on fire and they are forced to recall them. In this regard, as others have said, Tesla is a few years ahead of them with regard to battery technology alone.

 

[cwerdna]

Why not? It's the biggest complaint against the LEAF. Is it to get more people to sign onto their expensive battery replacement program?

Is it? I doubt it. The people in hot climates (e.g. Phoenix, Texas, Vegas, etc.) need it. Some in somewhat hot climates might need it. But most everywhere else, it doesn't need it. And, if one is leasing for only 2-3 years and not in a hot climate, I doubt those folks care.

I suspect range and a litany of other issues are larger complaints. I suspect the average Joe buyer and owner outside hot climates has no idea about the need for TMS. Heck, on MNL, we see lots of rather disturbing (to me) posts of some who have a surprising ignorance about certain things about the Leaf (e.g. the GOM), even if after they've had it for >1 year.

 

[yblaser]

Is it? I doubt it. The people in hot climates (e.g. Phoenix, Texas, Vegas, etc.) need it. Some in somewhat hot climates might need it. But most everywhere else, it doesn't need it. And, if one is leasing for only 2-3 years and not in a hot climate, I doubt those folks care.

While I agree that it is most likely not the number one complaint mainly due to ignorance about TMS, I would disagree that you only need it in hot climates. Yes, you may not notice increased degradation in a 2-3 year lease in a cooler climate, but the car doesn't disappear after the lease is over. Somebody owns it and its battery capacity or lack there of is certainly going to affect its residual value. Unless these are throw-away cars which really destroys any environmental benefits to owning an EV.

 

[ydnas7]

Is it? I doubt it. The people in hot climates (e.g. Phoenix, Texas, Vegas, etc.) need it. Some in somewhat hot climates might need it. But most everywhere else, it doesn't need it. And, if one is leasing for only 2-3 years and not in a hot climate, I doubt those folks care.

While I agree that it is most likely not the number one complaint mainly due to ignorance about TMS, I would disagree that you only need it in hot climates. Yes, you may not notice increased degradation in a 2-3 year lease in a cooler climate, but the car doesn't disappear after the lease is over. Somebody owns it and its battery capacity or lack there of is certainly going to affect its residual value. Unless these are throw-away cars which really destroys any environmental benefits to owning an EV.

Nissan keeps to budgets, for Nissan to have added an TMS but maintain budget they would've
a) reduced the NCA content - reducing pack energy and pack longevity for the majority (global) of users
b) reduced the cell weights - further reducing pack energy
so perhaps it would've been a standard 20kWh LEAF with faster degradation globally but slower degradation in USA.

TMS is a bit like a autotransmission, Nissan likes CVT, no Altimas with autotranmissions, Inifitis can get auto, 3rd world Versa can get auto, but 1st world midrange is CVT only

 

[dipper]

...

TMS is a bit like a autotransmission, Nissan likes CVT, no Altimas with autotranmissions, Inifitis can get auto, 3rd world Versa can get auto, but 1st world midrange is CVT only

IMO, TMS is like air cooled vs. water cooled radiator. Air cooled radiator works fine in some cases, but do you want to be the person with an overheated engine? Noticed no one uses air cooled radiators anymore?

 

[Ampster]

...

TMS is a bit like a autotransmission, Nissan likes CVT, no Altimas with autotranmissions, Inifitis can get auto, 3rd world Versa can get auto, but 1st world midrange is CVT only

IMO, TMS is like air cooled vs. water cooled radiator. Air cooled radiator works fine in some cases, but do you want to be the person with an overheated engine? Noticed no one uses air cooled radiators anymore?

I assume you mean no more engines are air cooled. Technically the modern day cooling system uses a fluid to take the heat away from the engine and then move it to the radiator which uses air to cool the fluid in the radiator.

Technically we have a superior product in the RAV because the Thermal Management System is used to cool and heat the battery pack in our cars. Because the TMS uses fluid, it is more efficient. I don't know the details of the Nissan Leaf but it doesn't have a TMS at all or if it does it uses air and doesn't cool the batteries.

 

[miimura]

...

TMS is a bit like a autotransmission, Nissan likes CVT, no Altimas with autotranmissions, Inifitis can get auto, 3rd world Versa can get auto, but 1st world midrange is CVT only

IMO, TMS is like air cooled vs. water cooled radiator. Air cooled radiator works fine in some cases, but do you want to be the person with an overheated engine? Noticed no one uses air cooled radiators anymore?

I assume you mean no more engines are air cooled. Technically the modern day cooling system uses a fluid to take the heat away from the engine and then move it to the radiator which uses air to cool the fluid in the radiator.

Technically we have a superior product in the RAV because the Thermal Management System is used to cool and heat the battery pack in our cars. Because the TMS uses fluid, it is more efficient. I don't know the details of the Nissan Leaf but it doesn't have a TMS at all or if it does it uses air and doesn't cool the batteries.

My understanding is that the Leaf battery is sealed. No air or water enters or leaves the pack. They may have a fan inside to equalize the temperature inside the pack, but there is no way to actively move heat into or out of the pack.

 

[TonyWilliams]

There is no heating or cooling or a LEAF battery, except for six 50 watt heaters used to keep the cells from freezing. They come on at -20C / -4F and heat the cells to -10C/14F.

There was a recirculating fan on prototypes, but production cars have none. The pack is sealed in a waterproof container and slightly pressurized.

 

[drmanny3]

We have a Leaf that is close to being turned in on a 36 month lease. It has been a problem free car. It is comfortable, well sized for driving around town, and other than the limited driving distance an overall great car. We purchased a new Rav4 EV last night. I have considered many cars but decided that the Rav4 has the size that we need. We have a big Great Pyrenees dog that has a hard time sitting in the rear of the Leaf. We typically haul him around in the Prius. Even the Prius requires that we remove the floor cover exposing more space and then keeping the rear seat up to protect him and us from a panic stop. He doesn't like the cramped quarters. The Rav4 has a big enough back area especially with the seats adjusted straight up (only car I have seen that allows the rake to be adjusted in the back) that he can easily stand on all fours and has room to move around. Go figure the car decision went to the dog....... We even looked at the new 2015 fuel cell Tucson from Hyundai. The back area was too small. Nice car though. Very limited. Only to be leased in Orange County and Los Angeles. Anyway pretty excited about the Rav4. The other reason already mentioned is the extended range. We just could not make it with the Leaf. Having said all this, what is important is to buy anything that is electric or plug in. It lets our manufacturers know that this is what the public wants. Oh, I think the Leaf has better electronic interface but I am still learning about he Rav4. I did find that I could not use my modified Panasonic 110 volt/240 volt, 16 amp charger on the Rav4. It would not recognize it. I have not figured out the why of this.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I did find that I could not use my modified Panasonic 110 volt/240 volt, 16 amp charger on the Rav4. It would not recognize it. I have not figured out the why of this.

Sell that for a healthy amount and buy a full 40 amp portable JESLAtm.

 

[cossie1600]

Toyota can't use nissan a charger, the leaf will gladly use toyotas

 

[cwerdna]

Toyota can't use nissan a charger, the leaf will gladly use toyotas

Huh? Charger?

The charger's on-board the car.

 

[Tadol]

I did find that I could not use my modified Panasonic 110 volt/240 volt, 16 amp charger on the Rav4. It would not recognize it. I have not figured out the why of this.

Sell that for a healthy amount and buy a full 40 amp portable JESLAtm.

I'll second that!

And for the record, I think every charger should have a LED built into it -

 

[Dianne]

The title of this thread is "convince me to buy a rav4 EV over a Leaf."

I have a few words.

Range.
Battery degradation.
Spaciousness/Room

To start.
I know Leaf's a less expensive car, but it should be.