Charging station vs JESLA

[agleung]

I will be hiring an electrician to bring in 240V x2 sockets into the garage for charging a RAV4 EV and a future EV. I would prefer a 40+A charger. The options available to me seems to be.

1. Leviton EVB40-P5T 40A - I read in one of the threads here that I can call them direct and get it and the installation kit for $900. NEMA 6-50P
855-5-PLUGIN (855-575-8446), 8AM-9PM EST Monday-Friday or E-mail [email protected]

2. Clipper Creek HCS-60 48A - $899 I will need 60A circuit but the draw will still be 40A for RAV4. hardwired (not NEMA receptacle)
http://www.clippercreek.com/store/product/hcs-60-48a-240v-charging-25′-rubber-over-molded-cord/

3. JESLA 40A - @TonyWilliams Is there tax and shipping on top of the $999? NEMA 14-50
http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=349
http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JESLA-is-THE-40-amp-J1772-portable-charging-solution-JESLA.htm

4. JuiceBox 60A - portable? wi-fi monitoring $736.98 NEMA 14-50R up to 75A breaker for 60A, but adjustable.
http://www.emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/product/show/44-emw-juicebox-level-2-15kw-ev-charging-station-kit-or-assembled-unit

Questions
1. First obvious question is should I get a charging station (Leviton or Clipper Creek) or a portable solution (JESLA or JuiceBox). The charging stations are bulky and not portable. But would it be more reliable and durable? Would it be overkill to get both a Leviton and a JESLA? Is a JESLA all I would need?

2. Breaker Circuit. With 2 x 40A charging I will need a 100A breaker, possibly 110A if I get the Clipper Creek or 125A with JuiceBox.

3. NEMA receptacle. On top of that I have a decision to make regarding 6-50 (Leviton) or 14-50 (JESLA or JuiceBox) receptacles.

4. Timed charging start. I understand there is no start timer for charging for options #1-3 above. Is there a way to schedule to send a signal to the car via desktop software to entune to start charging?

Can anyone chime in as to whether I am on the right track? Any recommendations? Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is all new to me.

 

[boredcleaner]

Questions
1. First obvious question is should I get a charging station (Leviton or Clipper Creek) or a portable solution (JESLA or JuiceBox). The charging stations are bulky and not portable. But would it be more reliable and durable? Would it be overkill to get both a Leviton and a JESLA? Is a JESLA all I would need?

2. Breaker Circuit. With 2 x 40A charging I will need a 100A breaker, possibly 110A if I get the Clipper Creek or 125A with JuiceBox.

3. NEMA receptacle. On top of that I have a decision to make regarding 6-50 (Leviton) or 14-50 (JESLA or JuiceBox) receptacles.

4. Timed charging start. I understand there is no start timer for charging for options #1-3 above. Is there a way to schedule to send a signal to the car via desktop software to entune to start charging?

Can anyone chime in as to whether I am on the right track? Any recommendations? Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is all new to me.

1. I have a converted Tesla EVSE that I use from time to time. The unit does not "hang" well, the cord is a little short, and it is somewhat inefficient to roll it up and put back in it's bag after charging. The wall mounted EVSE that I have at home is much more convenient in terms of ease-of-access and stowing. If you don't have a strong need for a portable EVSE (JdeMO is coming), my recommendation would be for a fixed install. I have a Levitron unit at home (no problems) and a Clipper Creek at work (no problems), and would recommend both. I based my purchase of the Levitron on price as it was cheaper at the time and JuiceBox wasn't out yet. There is also the OpenEVSE project if you are so inclined.
2. If you have room on your distribution panel, I'd be tempted to go with two independent circuits sized more appropriately to the EVSE rating (2x 50A breaker for two 40A EVSE). This would allow independent operation of both EVSE and prevent a situation where a fault in one would leave you with two uncharged cars.
3. The receptacle pretty much depends on which way you go with the EVSE. Make sure the match.
4. I've been using RavCharge for a while and have almost entirely forgotten about charge timing. Only during a period recently when EnTune was acting up did I remember and use the lousy interface to the charging subsystem.

Hope that helps.

 

[smkettner]

For home use I would recommend a hardwired wall unit. Jesla is fine and I see that as a more portable solution.
Both Leviton and Clipper Creek are excellent products. Choice based on how it looks will be fine.
Consider running two separate circuits. This keeps the breaker size correct and limits wire size to #6. Otherwise you may need a subpanel.

I find the RAV on board timer works quite well. My low rate window is 12a to 6a and I have a 30a EVSE. I set the departure time at 7a and it is always charged by 6a. If the RAV battery is depleted 80% or more the start time is over estimated. In this case I extend the departure time a bit and it works fine.

The process is simple. Turn the car off and plug in. Then go back and check the dash as it will display the actual start time. If it says 11:10p start just push the override button and extend the departure by 1 hour. The display then gives 12:10a as start time. Still the RAV is always charged by 6a. You will have even less trouble with faster 40a charging.

 

[miimura]

I have the Leviton 40A "flush mount" unit and I like it. This means that the electrical box needs to be recessed into the wall. It uses a NEMA 6-50 plug, so I had to change out my 14-50 outlet during the install. The "surface mount" version is designed for a metal box mounted on the surface of the wall. I posted some pictures of my install here. My 240V garage outlets were each wired directly to the main panel during construction of the house. Each outlet must be on its own breaker, so the only other way to do it is to install a 100A sub-panel in the garage and put the individual breakers there. Remember that the breakers must be 125% of the EVSE draw. 50A breaker for 40A EVSE, 40A breaker for 30A or 32A EVSE, etc.

You can frequently find the Leviton EVB units for $800-$825 from Amazon Warehouse Deals, which I assume are Amazon returns.

Today, if I didn't buy the 40A Leviton, I would buy one of the HCS units from Clipper Creek. Since my house was wired with 14-50 outlets, I could not use the HCS-60. I have not needed to bring a mobile charger anywhere yet in the first year of having the car. Your situations may be different.

 

[fooljoe]

Any of your options are pretty good, but I would also add open EVSE to the list. You could build two 40 amp, fully-adjustable open EVSEs for the price of any of the other options you named, and have one permanently installed at home and one to keep in the car for charging on the road. And you don't have to build them yourself; other forum members like GlennD often build and sell quality units.

I really value portability and adjustability with my EVSEs, as I like to take my Rav on road trips and stay in vacation rentals where I'm never quite sure what type of power source I'll find. But if you're not going to be that adventurous with your Rav and just take an ICE for road trips then you'll be fine with a wall-mount unit. To address your question, there isn't really any advantage to the wall mount units in terms of durability / reliability, however. Any "portable" EVSE could easily be hung from / mounted on a wall and used for daily charging without issue - it may just not look quite as neat.

As far as timed charging start, the idea you have to create a start timer for the car by automatically sending the signal to Entune is precisely the idea behind RavCharge.

By the way, there's also an open EVSE variant called the Hydra that you could use to be set up for charging two EVs from one circuit.

 

[TonyWilliams]

For the true "overkill" solution, we have customers with two JESLA's; one semi-permanently mounted on the wall and the other in their trunk.

It depends where you live to determine if there is any sales tax. Outside of Washington state should be OK for not paying any tax on a JESLA.

We sell a wall mount for the Tesla UMC / JESLA:


http://shop.quickchargepower.com/UMC-Wall-Mount-UMCWM.htm


If you're going to have a portable, I would absolutely put a NEMA 14-50 receptacle in. We sell those for just $5.99 (better than Home Depot !!!)


http://shop.quickchargepower.com/14-50R-Outlet-14-50R.htm


Based on how many JESLA failures we've had (one), and how many Leviton 40 amp wall mount failures I'm aware of (and how many refurbished / returned products are being resold at Amazon), I'm going to suggest that a sole JESLA solution is likely more dependable.

Also, the singular failure we had was a bad ultrasonic weld on one of the power pins in the NEMA 14-50 plug. I cut that one open and found the problem, then returned the newly functioning JESLA to its owner with a new enhanced NEMA 14-50 plug.

All JESLA's now ship with the new enhanced NEMA 14-50 plug.

I absolutley guarantee that. Leviton doesn't provide you with detailed internal failure analysis of their units:

I will be hiring an electrician to bring in 240V x2 sockets into the garage for charging a RAV4 EV and a future EV. I would prefer a 40+A charger. The options available to me seems to be.

Would it be overkill to get both a Leviton and a JESLA? Is a JESLA all I would need?

NEMA 14-50 receptacles...

 

[agleung]

I am duly impressed by the amount of support I am getting in this forum as a noob.

So far I am hearing mixed signal on the Leviton. I am not hearing anything bad (yet) on the Clipper Creek units. Ideally I want 40A so that would mean HCS-60. Since I am hiring an electrician anyways, perhaps the hard wire installation is not necessarily a deal breaker. I probably will have to search the old posts regarding reliability of the Leviton and Clipper Creek wall units. Is there a 40A Clipper Creek as well?

I am leaning toward a wall unit to start with. I definitely have not ruled out the JESLA but rather I don't have a strong need for a portable EVSE. The public charger station cables are on the ground anyways. It seems that if the JESLA cable is long enough then it should be comparable in ease of use. How long is the JESLA cable (from NEMA 14-50 to the wall unit and from the wall unit to J1772?

Also I am looking at the older posts on the JuiceBox… Not convinced yet. I will read some more, and open EVSE as well.

So it boils down to neat vs versatility?

 

[TonyWilliams]

How long is the JESLA cable (from NEMA 14-50 to the wall unit and from the wall unit to J1772?

National Electrical Code says 3 feet maximum from the 14-50 to the "wall unit", however the Tesla UMC / JESLA is only about one foot.

Overall, JESLA is about 18 feet.

 

[fooljoe]

So far I am hearing mixed signal on the Leviton. I am not hearing anything bad (yet) on the Clipper Creek units. Ideally I want 40A so that would mean HCS-60. Since I am hiring an electrician anyways, perhaps the hard wire installation is not necessarily a deal breaker. I probably will have to search the old posts regarding reliability of the Leviton and Clipper Creek wall units. Is there a 40A Clipper Creek as well?

No. I have no idea why CC chooses to make a 30a unit and a 48a unit. The only EV that can use more than 40a is a dual-charger Model S, and I can virtually guarantee that anyone who buys one of those will buy a Tesla HPWC along with it. It only serves to rule out the CC for people that already have a 50a circuit/receptacle installed, but if you're having an electrician put in a new line anyway it's no big deal. Although I'll admit I went ahead and put a 14-50 on my CS-60 and plugged it into my 50a circuit anyway.

CC (formerly EVI) has been making charging stations since back in the EV-1 days, and some of those old guys are still working. In fact you can usually find them on ebay - just put a new J1772 connector on instead of the old paddle and they're mostly good to go. A lot of us here got in on a great deal when a seller refurbished a bunch of CS-60s that were used for the Mini-E program and sold them for about $700, but those are pretty much all snatched up. I'm not aware of any problems with those units - they have a very simple, rugged design. I can't speak to the HCS-60 directly since that's a relatively new product, but the brand reputation is as good as it gets.

I am leaning toward a wall unit to start with. I definitely have not ruled out the JESLA but rather I don't have a strong need for a portable EVSE.

Do you have your Rav yet? Once you start driving it you might find that you're excited to try to push the limits and make some long drives, charging up at friends' houses or RV parks / vacation rentals. If that's the case you'll definitely be kicking yourself if you opt to shell out $900-$1000 for a charging station stuck on your wall when you could've gotten a JESLA that you can take with you for basically the same price. Of course I guess you could always get a wall unit then spend a few hundred more for a portable openEVSE sometime down the road.

The public charger station cables are on the ground anyways. It seems that if the JESLA cable is long enough then it should be comparable in ease of use. How long is the JESLA cable (from NEMA 14-50 to the wall unit and from the wall unit to J1772?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Just make sure that when you get your receptacles installed you place them near the left side of the vehicle (or ceiling mounted might be a good idea) and any charging station should reach without issue.

 

[miimura]

Based on how many JESLA failures we've had (one), and how many Leviton 40 amp wall mount failures I'm aware of (and how many refurbished / returned products are being resold at Amazon), I'm going to suggest that a sole JESLA solution is likely more dependable.

Also, the singular failure we had was a bad ultrasonic weld on one of the power pins in the NEMA 14-50 plug. I cut that one open and found the problem, then returned the newly functioning JESLA to its owner with a new enhanced NEMA 14-50 plug.

All JESLA's now ship with the new enhanced NEMA 14-50 plug.

I absolutley guarantee that. Leviton doesn't provide you with detailed internal failure analysis of their units:

I will be hiring an electrician to bring in 240V x2 sockets into the garage for charging a RAV4 EV and a future EV. I would prefer a 40+A charger. The options available to me seems to be.

Would it be overkill to get both a Leviton and a JESLA? Is a JESLA all I would need?

NEMA 14-50 receptacles...

I would not assume that the Leviton returns to Amazon have any real problem. I think there is a lot of confusion about the two versions - flush mount vs. surface mount. An electrician can move the cord to the other end of the box (the only difference between the two) but most people feel it's easier to just exchange it for the other version. I honestly feel that this is source of the majority of the Amazon Warehouse Deals units.

If you're comfortable spending the money on both the Jesla and a wall unit, that's a great way to go, especially if you will use the Jesla away from home. You could just keep the Jesla in the under-floor storage instead of the nearly useless 120V Panasonic unit that came with the car.

I agree that it is strange that Clipper Creek jumps from 30A to 48A. There is a NEMA 14-60, so that is an option if you want to put a plug on the HCS-60.

 

[fooljoe]

There is a NEMA 14-60, so that is an option if you want to put a plug on the HCS-60.

Except 14-60 plugs and receptacles start at about $65/each, while for 14-50 it's about $10/each (and only $6 for a receptacle from Tony!)

 

[smkettner]

Where are you getting a bad vibe on Leviton? I have only heard the best from this brand.
I suspect most of the bad is operator error.

 

[zman]

I'm a complete "noob" on here, as I just registered, after picking up my RAV a couple weeks ago. You all have been of great help.

I need to get a charging station soon, but I'm never very stationary (I split my time between 2-3 cities). Despite my nomadic lifestyle, I don't really understand how much benefit a JESLA would be for me.

1) Assuming I have charging stations in "each of my homes," how would a JESLA help me when I'm away from home? I feel like a place either has a charging station or has nothing. From experience, when has a JESLA come in handy on the road?
2) Even then, how is a JESLA any superior to a portable charging station that can just be plugged in?
3) Is the JESLA as reliable as something like a Clipper Creek or Leviton?
4) Lastly, would it be fair to consider the JESLA a 40-amp version of the 25-amp Panasonic EVSE upgrade (http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5)? Equally reliable?

Might just get something hardwired and add on a JESLA/EVSE upgrade if I see the need -- though that gets pricey.
Thanks for all your help!

 

[drmanny3]

I see the JESLA as a great back up to my installed Leviton. While we have yet to travel where we needed to charge, I considered the JESLA to be an insurance option as it is very flexible in its configurations. You can add many different connectors making it ideal for what might be available. It is true that if you can get to a charging station that you would not necessarily need the JESLA. I was thinking that it gives me much more capability away from home. It will also support up to 40 amps which makes it the faster than many of the fixed charging stations. Another nice feature of the JESLA is that when you attach another receptacle the amperage adjusts accordingly. While you might consider it expensive as an alternative it is really a quality piece. It is very light weight. I made up a 220 volt quick charger and a special connector so that I can use the JESLA to get 16? amps at 240 volts from a home or hotel room using the 110 volt receptacle for the JESLA. As I understand when fed 220 volts the unit will accept the feed. In the end it is really what you feel you will want to have. There is no reason why you would even need anything, assuming proper planning. I also liked the idea that it was a modified Tesla product. I used it everyday before getting the Leviton and it never heated up and always worked as expected. Quick Charge Power, the organization that sells the unit is very responsive and does an excellent job in the modification, making it well worth the investment.
Manny

 

[fooljoe]

1) Assuming I have charging stations in "each of my homes," how would a JESLA help me when I'm away from home? I feel like a place either has a charging station or has nothing. From experience, when has a JESLA come in handy on the road?

Well first off the idea is that if you have a portable charging station like the JESLA you don't need a charging station installed in each of your homes, just an outlet. You save a bunch of money only having to buy one EVSE you can take with you rather than buying 3. I've charged on the road at vacation rentals with dryer outlets, at friends' houses by combining 2 120v outlets with my "quick240", and even "hacking" into a breaker panel to get power (don't try this if you don't know what you're doing, of course.) Even if there's no "official" charging station, there's power everywhere if you know where to look and can get a little creative with adapters and such. Another popular spot to charge is RV parks, as most have NEMA 14-50 outlets that will give you full 40-amp charging.

2) Even then, how is a JESLA any superior to a portable charging station that can just be plugged in?

The advantages of the JESLA are primarily that it supports up to 40 amps and automatically adjusts the amount of current based on what type of outlet you plug into (with purchase of additional Tesla adapters.) It's also in a neat little package with a great, highly flexible cord. The only other portable EVSEs that have that combination of power and versatility are "kit" EVSEs like openEVSE and juicebox, which are great but not for everyone.

3) Is the JESLA as reliable as something like a Clipper Creek or Leviton?

There's really only anecdotal information to go on as far as reliability at this point, but you shouldn't have any concerns about any of these units, or the EVSE upgrade.

4) Lastly, would it be fair to consider the JESLA a 40-amp version of the 25-amp Panasonic EVSE upgrade (http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5)? Equally reliable?

That's a reasonably fair comparison. The EVSE upgrade is a great product too, especially if you don't need the full 40-amp capability. I have one (because there was no JESLA when I got my Rav) and it's my primary EVSE on the road. It has a few advantages over the JESLA, in that it's fully adjustable in 1-amp increments, you can make your own adapters rather than needing to buy from Tesla, and it's a very small package with ~5 extra feet of cord length. I see that they're offering them at a nice discount now, too; I paid $1k for mine.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I need to get a charging station soon, but I'm never very stationary (I split my time between 2-3 cities). Despite my nomadic lifestyle, I don't really understand how much benefit a JESLA would be for me.

Nomadic lifestyle seems to be the perfect application for a JESLA. You would install a NEMA 14-50 outlet in your garage / parking spot (we sell the 14-50 receptacle for $6). You can plug into RV parks everywhere, electric dyer outlets and hotel air conditioners, plus of course the normal and extremely slow household NEMA 5-15 outlet.

1) Assuming I have charging stations in "each of my homes," how would a JESLA help me when I'm away from home? I feel like a place either has a charging station or has nothing. From experience, when has a JESLA come in handy on the road?

You wouldn't need a charging stations at ANY of the homes; just an electric outlet, preferably a NEMA 14-50. Or, any of the following:

When you attach the respective plug, JESLA will automatically provide up to the following amperage:

............................................VOLTS / AMPS.......kW
NEMA 5-15 .......Standard Outlet.. 120 V / 12 A...... 1.4 kW
NEMA 5-20 ...... Motel air conditioner 120/16A....... 1.9 kW
NEMA 10-30......Older Dryers...... 240 V / 24 A...... 5.8 kW
NEMA 14-30......Newer Dryers..... 240 V / 24 A...... 5.8 kW
NEMA 6-50 .......Welding Equip.... 240 V / 40 A...... 9.6 kW
NEMA 14-50......RVs and Camps.. 240 V / 40 A...... 9.6 kW


Always, always, always check to make sure ANY socket / receptacle does not get hot with use, particularly ones that may not meet code (older house) or were installed in production / tract homes where everything is built to the absolute cheapest cost.

2) Even then, how is a JESLA any superior to a portable charging station that can just be plugged in?

The main components are all built by Tesla. Need I say more?

3) Is the JESLA as reliable as something like a Clipper Creek or Leviton?

Clipper Creek is great for dependability (although, we don't know yet about the latest releases of their products). Leviton would not be my first choice, however, there are plenty here that use one reliably.

4) Lastly, would it be fair to consider the JESLA a 40-amp version of the 25-amp Panasonic EVSE upgrade (http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=5)? Equally reliable?

In concept, sure. The Panasonic is another rock solid unit that I recommend (yes, I've had four of those upgraded by EVSEupgrade)

Might just get something hardwired and add on a JESLA/EVSE upgrade if I see the need -- though that gets pricey.
Thanks for all your help!

Of course, you don't need to hardware anything if you're always on the road.

 

[miimura]

When you attach the respective plug, JESLA will automatically provide up to the following amperage:

............................................VOLTS / AMPS.......kW
NEMA 5-15 .......Standard Outlet.. 120 V / 12 A...... 1.4 kW
NEMA 5-20 ...... Motel air conditioner 120/16A....... 1.9 kW
NEMA 10-30......Older Dryers...... 240 V / 24 A...... 5.8 kW
NEMA 14-30......Newer Dryers..... 240 V / 24 A...... 5.8 kW
NEMA 6-50 .......Welding Equip.... 240 V / 40 A...... 9.6 kW
NEMA 14-50......RVs and Camps.. 240 V / 40 A...... 9.6 kW


Always, always, always check to make sure ANY socket / receptacle does not get hot with use, particularly ones that may not meet code (older house) or were installed in production / tract homes where everything is built to the absolute cheapest cost.

Some Motel air conditioners are also NEMA 6-20 (208V / 16A=3.3kW, 240V / 16A=3.8kW) but you would have to make an adapter from 6-20 to 5-20 with the correct polarity since Tesla does not make a native NEMA 6-20 adapter.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Some Motel air conditioners are also NEMA 6-20 (208V / 16A=3.3kW, 240V / 16A=3.8kW) but you would have to make an adapter from 6-20 to 5-20 with the correct polarity since Tesla does not make a native NEMA 6-20 adapter.

Of course. I've already built custom adaptors for several JESLA purchasers, the most common seems to be for extension cords or generators (L6-30, L6-20, L14-20, L14-30).

 

[GlennD]

Hay Tony, I have to wonder about the 3 feet. I have been buying electric range cables since they are cheap. Since there are a lot of ranges out there the cables are cheep and they include a molded 14-50 plug. Every one I have purchased or seen is 4 feet long and they all come with UL stickers. Is the 3 foot rule only for EVSEs?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Hay Tony, I have to wonder about the 3 feet. I have been buying electric range cables since they are cheap. Since there are a lot of ranges out there the cables are cheep and they include a molded 14-50 plug. Every one I have purchased or seen is 4 feet long and they all come with UL stickers. Is the 3 foot rule only for EVSEs?

Probably. I'd have to look it up, but I'm reasonably certain that it's not four feet for an EVSE.