Alternate charging and storage ideas -

[Tadol]

There are just some random thoughts, and questions - Maybe someone out there has already considered some of these things and can share some thoughts -

Many older houses have inadequate electrical systems to allow them to easily install hi-amp charging units. The costs of upgrading panels, new services, new wiring, it can all add up rather quickly and create quite a barrier to adopting an electric vehicle as primary
transportation. Designing new structures, but being forced to install huge power services and all the equipment to go with them is not an attractive idea either - especially if one still dreams of living in a less heavily developed area. So here are some random thoughts -

Solar panels help reduce the cost of electricity - but do nothing about increasing the capacity of existing equipment, and can add some hassles integrating into older systems. Battery packs are just being introduced, a natural to combine with PV charging, could those, combined with some input from the grid, help make possible a high power charging system at a reasonable cost? I could also see those as making emergency power available to homes after an earthquake, or similar. But I'm not sure yet how those will work yet, so those may not be viable options -

The other option I imagined were backup generators - but not strictly backup, more of an auxiliary unit, creating additional power only when needed, much like the way many hybrid cars integrate a gas motor. So what if you had a small natural gas (or propane?) generator that could work not only as an emergency generator, but also as an on-demand - again, when combined with some grid power - to create a very high power vehicle charging unit, like a home chademo -

These are just some random thoughts - I guess I am trying to imagine how one would design a new house that intelligently integrates some of this technology, along with well designed passive systems, to create something that is very high-efficiency and low maintenance. I see EVs as the only option for transportation, but find even now, with 2 of them in the house, there are times when keeping both charged and available with 2 working people each day creates some occasional friction. The price to seriously upgrade our home to a much larger service is rather daunting.

Anyone else thinking about this stuff, or have any ideas?

 

[davewill]

My main thought is that any such solution is going to be much more expensive than simply upgrading the electric service, and I don't see upgraded electric as "heavily developed".

 

[miimura]

Agreed. If you don't want to spend the money to upgrade your utility service, you're certainly not going to want to invest in the alternatives listed above.

However, if you re-state the problem to allow high power charging off the grid, then it's a different story. And a different budget...

 

[smkettner]

New house has a 200 amp main breaker, no worries.

What is your main breaker size? Have any heavy use items like electric water heat, dryer, range, oven, air conditioners?

 

[Tadol]

I understand that new houses are easily built with 200A or greater services. I also know that services can be upgraded, but I'm intrigued with the possibilities of designing systems that don't require massive capability continuously, but can respond to short term high demand, and also offer longer term secondary ability. A building with a 400A service and a massive array of solar panels is still gonna be sitting in the dark if the transformer down the street fails in an earthquake or a truck drives into a pole. And when I tried to upgrade my commercial property, PGE said that to get the power I wanted, I'd have to pay for the engineering and installation of a massive new transformer for the neighborhood - estimated over $200,000 - so I settled for far less and have limited power. With so many new technologies becoming more standard, like smaller on demand generators and battery storage, combined with low power LED lighting and hi efficiency appliances, I was just wondering if anyone else was thinking about these things -

 

[miimura]

I have no experience with commercial service, but PG&E's policy for residential is that you pay for the conductors from the pole connection to your meter. You also have to pay for the panel and all of your inside wiring of course. You never have to pay for the transformer or any transformer upgrades if you upgrade your service. I know because I had a house built in 2012 and talked directly with the PG&E project engineer. He was very helpful in discussing all the options about single our dual meter, how to structure the feed to multiple meters, selecting the service size, etc. I decided on a 400 amp panel that actually uses a 320 amp service feed line while talking to the engineer. However, the electrician didn't get the memo from the GC, so I had to have him change out the 200 amp panel he installed during construction. After I moved in, they replaced the 20kVA transformer that serves my house and my two neighbors with a new 50kVA unit.

I have also heard that if you get an EV and need to upgrade your service for that reason, that PG&E has a rebate or some other incentive that cover up to $2,500 of that cost. I don't know anyone that has taken advantage of this.

I agree with you that systems that can handle high intermittent load independent of the grid are very useful. However, they are very expensive because they're not common yet. When we have lots of choices for inverters and DC/DC converters that can utilize 300-500 VDC battery packs, things will be much easier. Just imagine a DC fast charger in the boondocks that gets used about 4 times a week. A proper grid connection for it is prohibitively expensive, mostly due to the low utilization. A large battery system charged by what amounts to a clothes dryer outlet could do the job. The problem is that today the battery system is almost as prohibitively expensive. I'm sure that will change once Tesla ramps up the gigafactory and somebody engineers an integrated solution for it.

 

[smkettner]

I may have 200a panel at home but I think truthfully 100 amps would be plenty. 50 amps continuous is about max usage.

For business, managing the demand charges would be key to reducing the electric bill.
In addition to general conservation of course.