miimura
Well-known member
If you're in the south bay, Walnut Creek is far. Magnussen's Palo Alto is pretty good with the EV too.
ALL POSTS - Heater Failed - Service Bulletin TSB 0111-14
- Thread starter Joyride
- Start date
Help Support Toyota Rav4 EV Forum:
mikegerard
Well-known member
ravisekhar said:
Something is wrong...the RAV4EV provides heat much faster than my 2011 Sienna does. I can usually feel heat within 1-2 minutes.
Since you said you're getting some heat I'm also thinking that you should check the A/C. Even on Eco High I get a good amount of heat.
Mike
sierrabill
Member
Just for documentation... our heater quit working late this winter, which is the first issue we have had to take the RAV to the dealer (Roseville Toyota) for, 150 miles away. I trailered it because I could not get a straight answer as to whether or not it could be fully charged by the time they were done with the fix so I could make it home. They do have an L2 charger but looked like 6KW or less?
They were pretty good about it, the service guy came up to speed about the fix when the the head service dude came by at check-in. Friendly folks, fixed it for free did the 15K service and software update.
They were pretty good about it, the service guy came up to speed about the fix when the the head service dude came by at check-in. Friendly folks, fixed it for free did the 15K service and software update.
Kohler Controller
Well-known member
My heater doesn't seem to be working. It has been working fine for the past two years, although sometimes on rare occasions it doesn't get warm very fast or very hot. However, most the time it works as it should. This morning, however, it was 59F outside and I turned it on. 75, 80, 85, HI settings. Nothing changed. AC on/ AC off, no difference. Normal setting, ECO setting, no difference to temperature. Changed the mode to upper vents only, but it only continued to blow out cool air. I switched it to AUTO setting, and the fan speed could barely be heard. Not even sure which vents were open, so tried manually cranking up the fan speed. Fan works, but no heat.
It worked yesterday, so either a fuse is blown or I haven't convinced it I really want heat yet.
It just passed 40k miles, so maybe I'll take it to the Tesla service shop and see if I can hire them to replace the battery coolant (recommended after 40k miles) and have them check out the heater. Chances of them performing these tasks are low, but I thought it'd be worth a try.
I'm an out-of-stater with Platinum Extended 125k/6 year warranty. Even if Corporate Toyota was willing to help me, just having a competent Toyota entity diagnose the problem is still challenging.
I don't mind changing the fluid or checking the fuses, but I have no instructions for the procedures.
It worked yesterday, so either a fuse is blown or I haven't convinced it I really want heat yet.
It just passed 40k miles, so maybe I'll take it to the Tesla service shop and see if I can hire them to replace the battery coolant (recommended after 40k miles) and have them check out the heater. Chances of them performing these tasks are low, but I thought it'd be worth a try.
I'm an out-of-stater with Platinum Extended 125k/6 year warranty. Even if Corporate Toyota was willing to help me, just having a competent Toyota entity diagnose the problem is still challenging.
I don't mind changing the fluid or checking the fuses, but I have no instructions for the procedures.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
The heaters do fail. It is the same one on the Nissan LEAF (Denso 6kW).
The heater failure tends to fail a diode in the DC to DC converter. So, having said all that, you could just buy the heater and replace it. Or, ship the car for repairs, as you know.
DANGER: The heater uses 400vdc from the traction battery for power which can kill you. Pull the main battery disconnect under the passenger seat before work, and lock that away somewhere so that somebody doesn't get curious or "help you" by reinstalling it.
Other than that, the heater system is EXTREMELY simple, with a 6kW resistance heater, circulation pump, coolant and a radiant coil (nee "heater core") in the cabin to dispate the heat.
To test if it works, just turn the car to READY and put the heater on AUTO at "HI". Assuming the cabin isn't 90F, it will start the heater and circulating the pink glycol fluid. You can put your hand on the hoses to feel the pumping and heat.
If the pump is working, I'd likely guess that only other part of the system that makes the heat is bad. Yes, it could be a control issue, but since we know the cabin heater unit fails, that's about 98% likely the problem.
The heater failure tends to fail a diode in the DC to DC converter. So, having said all that, you could just buy the heater and replace it. Or, ship the car for repairs, as you know.
DANGER: The heater uses 400vdc from the traction battery for power which can kill you. Pull the main battery disconnect under the passenger seat before work, and lock that away somewhere so that somebody doesn't get curious or "help you" by reinstalling it.
Other than that, the heater system is EXTREMELY simple, with a 6kW resistance heater, circulation pump, coolant and a radiant coil (nee "heater core") in the cabin to dispate the heat.
To test if it works, just turn the car to READY and put the heater on AUTO at "HI". Assuming the cabin isn't 90F, it will start the heater and circulating the pink glycol fluid. You can put your hand on the hoses to feel the pumping and heat.
If the pump is working, I'd likely guess that only other part of the system that makes the heat is bad. Yes, it could be a control issue, but since we know the cabin heater unit fails, that's about 98% likely the problem.
Kohler Controller
Well-known member
Did you mean to say I could simply replace the diode in the DC-DC? Any idea the part number (or rating/size)?
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
Kohler Controller said:
Well, whatever happened in the heater blew out that diode.
I haven't actually opened one up, but you're welcome to!!!
Kohler Controller
Well-known member
I suppose that even though the heating element is the same as in the Leaf, the diode to which you refer to is inside the silver DC-DC, correct? So possibly a RAV4EV exclusive part/design?
I thought that the DC-DC was shared with the Model S, but I've read that the Model S doesn't use PTC heating elements, so now I'm wondering if they are equivalent or not.
BTW, I checked the output of the DC-DC and it is working fine (12.8V when off, 14.5V when on).
With climate system on AUTO HI, nothing seems to happen. The fan will slowing come on if I lower the temperature to 80 and speeds up as the temp value lowers. As I select higher temps, the fan speeds slows down and stops. Under the hood I could not see or feel any pink fluid being pumped around. And yes, you are right, a very simple system.
Coolant reservoir, two tubes going into the firewall (in and out of heater core), one of those tubes goes into a black box (heating elements) then exits and goes to the pump, and returns again to the reservoir.
Electrically, it has two high voltage orange wires from DC-DC that is marked "(+) CABIN HTR (-)" going to the black box (elements), and small low voltage control wires going to the coolant pump motor.
So what you are telling me is that the heating element is not getting 350VDC possibly because of the blown diode. If I can borrow a car for the weekend, I may disassemble the DC-DC to see what I can find. If I do, I'll document it for the group.
I thought that the DC-DC was shared with the Model S, but I've read that the Model S doesn't use PTC heating elements, so now I'm wondering if they are equivalent or not.
BTW, I checked the output of the DC-DC and it is working fine (12.8V when off, 14.5V when on).
With climate system on AUTO HI, nothing seems to happen. The fan will slowing come on if I lower the temperature to 80 and speeds up as the temp value lowers. As I select higher temps, the fan speeds slows down and stops. Under the hood I could not see or feel any pink fluid being pumped around. And yes, you are right, a very simple system.
Coolant reservoir, two tubes going into the firewall (in and out of heater core), one of those tubes goes into a black box (heating elements) then exits and goes to the pump, and returns again to the reservoir.
Electrically, it has two high voltage orange wires from DC-DC that is marked "(+) CABIN HTR (-)" going to the black box (elements), and small low voltage control wires going to the coolant pump motor.
So what you are telling me is that the heating element is not getting 350VDC possibly because of the blown diode. If I can borrow a car for the weekend, I may disassemble the DC-DC to see what I can find. If I do, I'll document it for the group.
doug401
Well-known member
Last Winter a heater core shorted and the diode fried on a Rav up here in Seattle. Toyota arranged, on a case-by-case basis, for repair at a local shop. That fiasco was documented here on the forum somewhere. I had all the part numbers and several trouble-shooting guidelines from past Toyota tech heater repairs. Initially I wanted to fix it myself because it is a simple fix, but the cost was many thousands of $$$. Call Toyota Care service, or as I like to call it, "Toyota Doesn't Really Care" service.
Airton
Well-known member
or maybe reach out to Kevin Spillane directly? (Toyota Customer rep for the Rav4EV)
Direct line: 1-310-974-7545
He was extremely helpful when I requested the firmware updates.
Best of luck and keep us posted...
Direct line: 1-310-974-7545
He was extremely helpful when I requested the firmware updates.
Best of luck and keep us posted...
Kohler Controller
Well-known member
doug401 said:
I searched the forum first, but as you know with this search engine, you have to be extremely accurate in your match. I would love to see the part numbers and trouble shooting guidelines if you still have them. Did yours fail the same as my description? Was it just the diode, or did they have to replace the entire DC-DC?
I will also call TDRC department and hope for the best, as well as call Kevin Spillane.
Airtron, do you know Kevin's email address?
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
kevin_spillane (((@))) toyota.com
Kevin
310-974-7545
Toyota won't make ANY repairs to any component from Tesla. They will merely remove and replace.
The heaters are a known failure issue.
Kevin
310-974-7545
Toyota won't make ANY repairs to any component from Tesla. They will merely remove and replace.
The heaters are a known failure issue.
Airton
Well-known member
I wonder if the replacement Denso heaters are any better or improved upon?
Is this common with the Leaf? or is it something in our cars that causes them to fail?
Kohler Controller, have you done any software/firmware updates on your car?
if so what are you running?
Is this common with the Leaf? or is it something in our cars that causes them to fail?
Kohler Controller, have you done any software/firmware updates on your car?
if so what are you running?
doug401
Well-known member
Airton said:
Yes... That's the guy I spoke to also. Very helpful and professional. Bent his ear for a half hour on the phone about out of state service issues.
Kohler Controller
Well-known member
Airton said:
I have had two firmware updates, the latest I believe was XX.83, but wouldn't think firmware has any influence on this issue.
doug401
Well-known member
I found this on my desktop... glad I saved it.
----------------------
Replaced the following:
87101-42010 Heater Sub-Assy, Ele
G9270-0R011 Converter Assy, Elec
00289-G48VC G-48 Collant
00272-GTBC1 S/L Life Blue
Verified no heat from heater, Inspected Continuity of cabin heater fuse through DC/DC converter at cabin heater terminal + to main power cable, has open circuit. Inspected resistance of cabin heater at cabin heater connector, has 222 ohms at connector (readings same checked + to - & - to +). Needs cabin heater & DC/DC converter. Called TAS case #TA133430164. Replaced in cabin heater & DC/DC converter. Performed collant air purge & thermal system test. rd tested ok, heater operation normal
Perform power train update
As per TSB0050-13 replashed power management control ECU from CAL ID#896B342011300/896B54301100 to ID#896B342011500/896B54201300 & EC Gateway ECU from version 1.3.62 to version 1.3.79
----------------------
Replaced the following:
87101-42010 Heater Sub-Assy, Ele
G9270-0R011 Converter Assy, Elec
00289-G48VC G-48 Collant
00272-GTBC1 S/L Life Blue
Verified no heat from heater, Inspected Continuity of cabin heater fuse through DC/DC converter at cabin heater terminal + to main power cable, has open circuit. Inspected resistance of cabin heater at cabin heater connector, has 222 ohms at connector (readings same checked + to - & - to +). Needs cabin heater & DC/DC converter. Called TAS case #TA133430164. Replaced in cabin heater & DC/DC converter. Performed collant air purge & thermal system test. rd tested ok, heater operation normal
Perform power train update
As per TSB0050-13 replashed power management control ECU from CAL ID#896B342011300/896B54301100 to ID#896B342011500/896B54201300 & EC Gateway ECU from version 1.3.62 to version 1.3.79
dstjohn99
Well-known member
Has anyone asked for the old parts to be returned? I imagine if Toyota is paying (warranty work) they might not be required to return replaced parts (not sure what CA law says here). But I intend to always ask. In several years if I have an issue and parts are scarce or excessively expansive, I may need to take a damaged unit to an electronic tech for troubleshooting and repair at the component level if I am unable to repair on my own.
I just took my Rav4 to Toyota Santa Monica and they had it most of the day and said they could not find the problem with the heater. I actually think my heater has never worked in the year that I have had the vehicle. I am going back next Friday to try again. They don't seem to give out loaner vehicles. Have people had different experiences with loaner vehicles? I would be fine if they keep it for a few days as long as they gave me a loaner, but they seem to want me to drive back and forth to the dealer which is 70 miles away. They are very good at charging it prior to me picking it up.
Kohler Controller
Well-known member
doug401 said:
Wow, thanks Doug401! I've played phone tag with Kevin Spillane of Toyota Corporate. I will try to go that route first, but your information is very valuable to me. Thank you for taking the time to search.
drmanny3
Well-known member
For what ever reason I tried our heater the other night. I guess actually it was cold and I wanted to heat up the cabin. Well it did not seem to come on. The seats work great. But for the life of me I could not get the heater working. I found this forum post but was not sure how to go about checking to see what was working or what was not. I checked the fuses but did not find one labeled heater. I was not sure what to do to verify it worked or what specifically was wrong. This is the first time I had come to try it in over 11 months of ownership. I tried many different combinations and finally today had some time so I took it to Tustin Toyota. I said I would wait to see if they could do a diagnostic. Because they were backed up the service tech offered me a loaner. I was kind of surprised. Anyway got a call later today saying that all the parts identified in the post had failed so they were ordering them and expected to have them tomorrow. Go figure. I think in the three years we had the Leaf that we never used the heater.
Manny
Manny
