Running the Rav4 low on energy (Turtle Mode)

TonyWilliams · Nov 18, 2012

Running out of energy in any new electric vehicle has more warnings than seem necessary.

The Rav4 has Low Battery Warning (LBW) concurrent with 2 illuminated fuel bar segments out of 16 total, then Very Low Battery (VLB) with one bar, and then Climate Control Limited (CCL) with no bars, and finally our good friend Turtle mode (Low Battery Charge, Drive Power is Limited... LBC).

This all takes place in about 15-20 miles. Somebody will notice that I also got a flat tire.

Not pictured: Low Battery Warning (LBW):

Very Low Battery (VLB):

F578E580-6D24-4F71-B442-F7477E77C6FF-9670-0000052FFF0076B8.jpg

Climate Control Limited (CCL) during VLB:

B72E6EB2-F869-4ACB-A845-F276382A4AC1-9670-0000053001871D9F.jpg

LBC / Turtle:

C4E0A2D0-D814-4F3F-BBCD-984A4B5FE461-9670-0000052F05C4EA56.jpg

Video with flat tire whilst entering LBC / Turtle mode:

Dsinned · Nov 18, 2012

Thanks for posting this info and the screen displays. Most of us may never see them in our cars, but it is nice to know how they would appear before any such low battery situations actually occur.

Because of "range anxiety" as the most pervausive issue with pure electric vehicle, I'd say Toyota got it right. Not only do we have the longest battery range - remarkably so for an SUV - but we have all these "warning" messages on the dash to help us from running out of juice in the real world.

Turtle mode? Appropriately named! You just gotta love it!!! :mrgreen:

TonyWilliams · Nov 18, 2012

Dsinned said:
Thanks for posting this info and the screen displays. Most of us may never seen them in our cars, but it is nice to know how they would appear before any such low battery situations occur.

Because of "range anxiety" as the most pervausive issue with pure electric vehicle, I'd say Toyota got it right. Not only do we have the longest battery range - even remarkably so for an SUV - we have all these "warning" messages on the dash to help us from running out of juice in the real world.

Turtle mode? Appropriately names! You just gotta love it!!! :mrgreen:

You're welcome.

Toyota's warnings are virtually IDENTICAL to the Nissan LEAF, including Turtle mode. The only one lacking is the climate control warning.

sam · Nov 19, 2012

Rav4 EV has a turtle mode? That's the funniest mode name I have ever heard! The snapshots are really good. Never seen anything like this before in my car. Now even more excited for rav4 ev.

Damchi · Nov 21, 2012

Tony,

Sorry to ask a silly question but how do you post photos to this forum? I understand that it's more like inserting a link and not uploading the image. Do you use a photo sharing site?

Never Mind I think I got it

Dsinned · Nov 21, 2012

Today, while taking several short trips, I got the "Low Battery" warning right at 16 miles remaining on my range gauge (with the climate control off). Then, the display returned to normal after several seconds. Shortly after that, when I parked, it warned me again. I must of missed this info in the owners manual, but good to know nevertheless. :mrgreen:

Btw, is it safe to assume that each "bar" on the range gauge is roughly equivalent to 8 miles of remaining range before turtle mode? Or, does that totally depend on the "learned" efficiency of the car (i.e. the average mileage per kWh)? I suspect the latter.

TonyWilliams · Nov 22, 2012

Dsinned said:
Btw, is it safe to assume that each "bar" on the range gauge is roughly equivalent to 8 miles of remaining range before turtle mode? Or, does that totally depend on the "learned" efficiency of the car (i.e. the average mileage per kWh)? I suspect the latter.

Sure, if you're going 3.4 miles/kWh (about 60mph on level ground) with a normal (80%) charge (again, assuming my 37.6 kWh useable storage is correct). You need to reset the economy meter every time you want to use it for actual data:

8 * 16 = 128 miles

For an extended range mode charge (100%):

8 * 20 = 160 miles

Once battery degradation becomes a factor sometime next year, we'll have calculations for that, too.

TonyWilliams · Nov 22, 2012

Dsinned said:
Today, while taking several short trips, I got the "Low Battery" warning right at 16 miles remaining on my range gauge (with the climate control off).

This is going to be hard to overcome, but you might not get 16 miles on the GOM every time you get LBW. I doubt the two are connected.

What is connected (and different than LEAF) is that the second fuel bar segment is Low Battery Warning (LBW), and the first fuel bar segment is Very Low Battery (VLB).

When there are no fuel bars remaining, you will get Climate Control Limited (CCL) on the lower center console.

Then, Turtle and limited power. GET SAFELY OFF THE ROAD NOW !!!

Dsinned · Jan 2, 2013

When the Turtle idiot light turns on, assuming everything else is off (climate control, headlights, etc), what little amount of range is left? Less than a mile? 1/2 mile? Just a few 100 yards? Is this documented anywhere?

I have not run the car to dead, nor do I intend to, but the Turtle mode range in a LEAF can be several hundred feet to about half a mile on level ground.

Mostly it depends on the power draw. The BMS will protect the battery and shut down earlier at higher (although quite limited) power.

I did hit turtle this weekend, going up a steep, long grade, although very slowly (about 15-25mph). It actually went to turtle while still showing one fuel bar.

Just a heads up. If you want a "normal" Turtle routine that I outlined in posts above, that will only happen on level roads with low power useage.

user 162 · Mar 8, 2013

Damchi said:
Tony,

Sorry to ask a silly question but how do you post photos to this forum? I understand that it's more like inserting a link and not uploading the image. Do you use a photo sharing site?

Never Mind I think I got it

Could you tell me how you did it. I am trying to post a pic.

In advance thanks!!

TonyWilliams · Mar 8, 2013

capod said:
Damchi said:

Tony,

Sorry to ask a silly question but how do you post photos to this forum? I understand that it's more like inserting a link and not uploading the image. Do you use a photo sharing site?

Never Mind I think I got it

Click to expand...

Could you tell me how you did it. I am trying to post a pic.

In advance thanks!!

You need a hosting site like http://www.photobucket.com, then you upload the pictures there, and then copy the "IMG" file and paste that here. The file will look like:

edmc · Mar 8, 2013

As I post this reply, I see a row of helpful buttons up above that provide the "wrappers" around things like boldface text, http://urls-of-your-choice and, pertinent to this discussion, images. Unfortunately, I think this is not what you are looking for as the "img" tag is really looking for a URL pointing to where your picture is Internet/Web accessible. I guess you want to be able to "upload" the picture so that the forum will host it, no?

Indeed, here's an example using the "Img" tag to display the picture of the 2010 Rav4 EV "prototype":

The only thing between the "img" and "/img" tags in my post is the URL I "copied" from the forum's home page of that picture

.

waidy · Mar 8, 2013

My turtle came on LBW, never seen CCL.

waidy · Mar 8, 2013

TonyWilliams said:
Toyota's warnings are virtually IDENTICAL to the Nissan LEAF, including Turtle mode. The only one lacking is the climate control warning.

Actually, the LEAF turtle is identical to the 2002 Toyota Rav4EV.

waidy · Mar 8, 2013

Dsinned said:
When the Turtle idiot light turns on, assuming everything else is off (climate control, headlights, etc), what little amount of range is left? Less than a mile? 1/2 mile? Just a few 100 yards? Is this documented anywhere?

In the case of LEAF, I had less than a mile after turtle came on. In the case of the 2002 Rav4EV, I have ~8 miles after turtle. I only tried once per EV just to test and understand the BMS system.

I was too chicken to get Dolphin to dead (my kids were out of town, no "help" button). So I stopped less than 3 miles after turtle came on.

Dsinned said:
It actually went to turtle while still showing one fuel bar.

Same experience here (see photo on two posts before this).

In additions, if you ever ran into dead situation, don't panic. turn off the EV and wait half an hour to an hour. Turn it on again and it will let you go few miles (But I guess you are stressing the battery pack).

occ · Mar 8, 2013

Well, I got my first turtle today too, about 500 ft from my garage. The 126.2 miles is from normal full charge and 1hr extra on the AV EVSE 7.2kw.

Notice I still got the last bar.

The Rav GOM (Guess O Meter, or the range est) is rather good on the Rav, much better than LEAF. I think it was optimistic by only about 3 miles. My reading went from 3 miles to "RANGE LO", and then (if I remember correctly) I went about 2 miles after "RANGE LO" till turtle.

I did get the Low Battery warning right when the third bar disappeared (2 bars), and then the Very Low Bat at 1 bar. But that last bar stayed until Turtle.

waidy · Mar 8, 2013

occ said:
Well, I got my first turtle today too, <...important stuffs deleted...>Notice I still got the last bar. <...more important stuffs deleted...> But that last bar stayed until Turtle.

Same here. As I remember correctly, I did not turn on climate control. Perhaps this is the reason why I didn't get the CCL like Tony did. Occ: were your climate control ON? Tony: were your climate control ON?

occ · Mar 9, 2013

waidy said:
Same here. As I remember correctly, I did not turn on climate control. Perhaps this is the reason why I didn't get the CCL like Tony did. Occ: were your climate control ON? Tony: were your climate control ON?

Nope, I didn't turn anything on the climate control as I knew I was going to be very close on my 17 miles commute home (GOM had 19 miles at the start of that drive). Although the last two miles were slightly uphill so I wonder if that used more energy than predicted.

TonyWilliams · Mar 9, 2013

waidy said:
occ said:

Well, I got my first turtle today too, <...important stuffs deleted...>Notice I still got the last bar. <...more important stuffs deleted...> But that last bar stayed until Turtle.

Click to expand...

Same here. As I remember correctly, I did not turn on climate control. Perhaps this is the reason why I didn't get the CCL like Tony did. Occ: were your climate control ON? Tony: were your climate control ON?

Yes, I rarely turn it off. You won't see CCL on the dash, but only on the actual climate control dash panel.

Also, as several noted getting turtle with one bar remaining, I have also gotten it both with and without one bar.

TonyWilliams · Mar 9, 2013

waidy said:
TonyWilliams said:

Toyota's warnings are virtually IDENTICAL to the Nissan LEAF, including Turtle mode. The only one lacking is the climate control warning.

Click to expand...

Actually, the LEAF turtle is identical to the 2002 Toyota Rav4EV.

The turtle grandfather? I wonder if the GM EV1 had turtle (which predated Rav4 EV Gen 1)?

Running the Rav4 low on energy (Turtle Mode)

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