RAV4 Dislikes LEAF EVSE with EVSEUpgrade Rev 2

[DevinL]

If I try to plug the RAV4 into the EVSE from my prior LEAF absolutely nothing happens. The LEAF EVSE is a 2011 with EVSEUpgrade Rev 2 and is running off of a 240V 20A circuit. It has always worked fine with the LEAF, the Focus EV, and a number of visiting Volts. I have a 30A AeroVironment EVSE-RS as well and that has no problem with the RAV but it'd be nice to have both work with it.

Anyone else had a similar experience?

 

[pchilds]

The 2011-12 LEAF EVSE doesn't comply with the J1772 spec. The pilot is required to be +12 volts to -12 volts, it is only +12 volts to ground, Nissan saved a couple bucks, buying a non-compliant EVSE.

You should sell the EVSEUpgrade and build a OpenEVSE or buy a Jesla, then you will have a portable 40 amp EVSE.

 

[DevinL]

You should sell the EVSEUpgrade and build a OpenEVSE or buy a Jesla, then you will have a portable 40 amp EVSE.

That's actually my ultimate goal, but I'd like to replace the AeroVironment EVSE-RS at the same time with a 60A capable OpenEVSE Hydra that can dynamically adjust between the two. Right now I have a 60A service in the garage split to a 40A and 20A breaker for the AV and Nissan EVSEs respectively. It seems as though the Hydra isn't quite ready for primetime though, which is to say I looked at the instructions and would really fear burning my house down if I attempted it.

 

[pchilds]

You could build two OpenEVSEs, it is easy to adjust the current setting. Build and wire them both for 40 amps and set them as need to not exceed you panel rating. 32 and 16, or 34 and 14, or 36 and 12...

 

[4EVEREV]

The 2011-12 LEAF EVSE doesn't comply with the J1772 spec. The pilot is required to be +12 volts to -12 volts, it is only +12 volts to ground, Nissan saved a couple bucks, buying a non-compliant EVSE.

You should sell the EVSEUpgrade and build a OpenEVSE or buy a Jesla, then you will have a portable 40 amp EVSE.

That's actually not accurate, Only the Tesla systems have this issue. It is a compliance issue on both ends and not a cost savings move on Nissans part since this has evolved over time. The 2013 Nissan cable works on the RAV and other EVs, Other EVSE units do not work with the RAV and the Tesla. The 2011 Nissan cable works on a Prius but the Prius and RAV cables are exactly the same.

 

[fooljoe]

Had the same problem. You could try to trade your upgraded 2011 EVSE for an unmodified 2013 one, then get that upgraded for a good portable charging solution. But it'd only be 24 amp capable and might cost nearly as much as a Jesla when you factor in how much you could possibly get selling the 2011 EVSE (that's a big question though.) It's a really solid unit though with great adjustability and portability.

Re the hydra, it really shouldn't be that hard / scary, it's basically just 2 openEVSEs that can talk to each other to set the pilots.

 

[davewill]

The 2011-12 LEAF EVSE doesn't comply with the J1772 spec. The pilot is required to be +12 volts to -12 volts, it is only +12 volts to ground, Nissan saved a couple bucks, buying a non-compliant EVSE. ...

That's actually not accurate, Only the Tesla systems have this issue. It is a compliance issue on both ends and not a cost savings move on Nissans part since this has evolved over time. ...

It is exactly accurate. The spec was set before either was built. The fact that most cars are willing to accept the nonstandard pilot doesn't mean they should. I just had to trade away my upgrade for the same issue.

 

[drmanny3]

I had the same problem. My upgraded 2011 Leaf brick would not work with my Rav4EV. I sold it for $250 plus a unmodified Leaf Brick which by the way also does not work with the Rav4EV. I still have the leaf for a few more months and needed a means of charging. I actually can use the JESLA that Tony's Company provides. It is one of the best chargers around. I often use it for both the Leaf and the Rav4EV. When we only have 7 or 8 hours of charge at 110 I use the Leaf brick. Anymore than that and I use the JESLA. The only downside to the JESLA is that I have too short of a cable with the J1772 connector. I end up having to back the Leaf in so that it can reach the JESLA. In order not to go through that effort I would need a cable that was 16 feet long. Maybe not such a good idea as the weight goes up. So for now I just back the Leaf in. Or I can just order the extension that Tony's Company offers. He kind of thought through all this stuff. I had better get out the check book.....

 

[miimura]

I had the same problem. My upgraded 2011 Leaf brick would not work with my Rav4EV. I sold it for $250 plus a unmodified Leaf Brick which by the way also does not work with the Rav4EV. I still have the leaf for a few more months and needed a means of charging. I actually can use the JESLA that Tony's Company provides. It is one of the best chargers around. I often use it for both the Leaf and the Rav4EV. When we only have 7 or 8 hours of charge at 110 I use the Leaf brick. Anymore than that and I use the JESLA. The only downside to the JESLA is that I have too short of a cable with the J1772 connector. I end up having to back the Leaf in so that it can reach the JESLA. In order not to go through that effort I would need a cable that was 16 feet long. Maybe not such a good idea as the weight goes up. So for now I just back the Leaf in. Or I can just order the extension that Tony's Company offers. He kind of thought through all this stuff. I had better get out the check book.....

Extending the AC power side is much cheaper than extending the J1772 side. NEMA 14-50 15 feet extension ~$60.

 

[4EVEREV]

I had the same problem. My upgraded 2011 Leaf brick would not work with my Rav4EV. I sold it for $250 plus a unmodified Leaf Brick which by the way also does not work with the Rav4EV. I still have the leaf for a few more months and needed a means of charging. I actually can use the JESLA that Tony's Company provides. It is one of the best chargers around. I often use it for both the Leaf and the Rav4EV. When we only have 7 or 8 hours of charge at 110 I use the Leaf brick. Anymore than that and I use the JESLA. The only downside to the JESLA is that I have too short of a cable with the J1772 connector. I end up having to back the Leaf in so that it can reach the JESLA. In order not to go through that effort I would need a cable that was 16 feet long. Maybe not such a good idea as the weight goes up. So for now I just back the Leaf in. Or I can just order the extension that Tony's Company offers. He kind of thought through all this stuff. I had better get out the check book.....

Extending the AC power side is much cheaper than extending the J1772 side. NEMA 14-50 15 feet extension ~$60.

Yes it is and it also technically defeats one of the main functions of the EVSE. There is a specific reason the input cords are two feet or less. I would also caution those extending the J1772, I have seen this done improperly and damaging several EVs. A wire to wire connection is not always the proper solution.

 

[DevinL]

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one then. I'll probably keep the current arrangement for now as it seems to be working. The GF's Ford is close enough to the 30A EVSE that it can be taken from the RAV without moving cars if needed. Once this semester is over I'll have more time to properly look in to building a hydra or something.

 

[miimura]

I had the same problem. My upgraded 2011 Leaf brick would not work with my Rav4EV. I sold it for $250 plus a unmodified Leaf Brick which by the way also does not work with the Rav4EV. I still have the leaf for a few more months and needed a means of charging. I actually can use the JESLA that Tony's Company provides. It is one of the best chargers around. I often use it for both the Leaf and the Rav4EV. When we only have 7 or 8 hours of charge at 110 I use the Leaf brick. Anymore than that and I use the JESLA. The only downside to the JESLA is that I have too short of a cable with the J1772 connector. I end up having to back the Leaf in so that it can reach the JESLA. In order not to go through that effort I would need a cable that was 16 feet long. Maybe not such a good idea as the weight goes up. So for now I just back the Leaf in. Or I can just order the extension that Tony's Company offers. He kind of thought through all this stuff. I had better get out the check book.....

Extending the AC power side is much cheaper than extending the J1772 side. NEMA 14-50 15 feet extension ~$60.

Yes it is and it also technically defeats one of the main functions of the EVSE. There is a specific reason the input cords are two feet or less. I would also caution those extending the J1772, I have seen this done improperly and damaging several EVs. A wire to wire connection is not always the proper solution.

You definitely have to be careful to use high quality and heavy gauge cables when extending a 50A circuit. However, I'm curious what "main function" of an EVSE you're disabling by using an extension? Clearly unplugging an EVSE while it's delivering power is not a good idea and some EVSE have some protection for this, but not all do and it must not be required for UL listing.

 

[DevinL]

You definitely have to be careful to use high quality and heavy gauge cables when extending a 50A circuit. However, I'm curious what "main function" of an EVSE you're disabling by using an extension? Clearly unplugging an EVSE while it's delivering power is not a good idea and some EVSE have some protection for this, but not all do and it must not be required for UL listing.

I think he's referring to the GFCI functionality of the J1772 side which would stop power flow if it's in a puddle for instance. On the AC side if your extension cord connection rests in a puddle you don't necessarily have this same protection.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... I would also caution those extending the J1772, I have seen this done improperly and damaging several EVs. A wire to wire connection is not always the proper solution.

Can you elaborate on what you specifically have seen done wrong?

For the record, our JLongtm J1772 extension cord passes through all the relevant control and safety signals. When pressing the disconnect button on either the host J1772, or at the JLong handle, the car's charger will receive the correct disconnect message.

Nobody offers that but us.

 

[ehelmholtz]

... defeats one of the main functions of the EVSE. There is a specific reason the input cords are two feet or less. I would also caution those extending the J1772, I have seen this done improperly and damaging several EVs. A wire to wire connection is not always the proper solution.

I am not certain what main function is being defeated. Incidentally, the TIA from NEC currently says 6 feet not 2 feet: http://www.nfpa.org/Assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/TIA70-11-2.pdf. Regulations are meant to ensure safety and so long as modifications by Tony and others who have a sound foundation in electricity to ensure safety (Tony often exceeds requirements), I see little harm.

 

[4EVEREV]

... I would also caution those extending the J1772, I have seen this done improperly and damaging several EVs. A wire to wire connection is not always the proper solution.

Can you elaborate on what you specifically have seen done wrong?

For the record, our JLongtm J1772 extension cord passes through all the relevant control and safety signals. When pressing the disconnect button on either the host J1772, or at the JLong handle, the car's charger will receive the correct disconnect message.

Nobody offers that but us.

Tony,

I was not commenting on what you do I was commenting on what many DYI people are doing that does not work in all cases.

 

[4EVEREV]

You definitely have to be careful to use high quality and heavy gauge cables when extending a 50A circuit. However, I'm curious what "main function" of an EVSE you're disabling by using an extension? Clearly unplugging an EVSE while it's delivering power is not a good idea and some EVSE have some protection for this, but not all do and it must not be required for UL listing.

I think he's referring to the GFCI functionality of the J1772 side which would stop power flow if it's in a puddle for instance. On the AC side if your extension cord connection rests in a puddle you don't necessarily have this same protection.

Exactly, that is a primary function of the EVSE and why the input cord must be short or hard wired. The sole role of an EVSE is not just to provide a pilot signal and power although some people out there have pushed unsafe and substandard implementations. Yes, it has been updated to 6 feet which limits the location of the non-protected input section.