Real World Range

[snoltor]

Thinking of buying an EV, test drove the Rav4 and loved it. Going to use it for my daily commute during the week. Most important question is will it do the job for me throughout the year? My daily commute is 50 miles, 80% on a major highway. Pretty much flat terrain in the Sacramento area. High temps in the summer 105+, cold temps this winter down to around 28F, but more often in the 40's with windy rain. Will the Rav4 get me to and from work every day throughout the year without any problems? I'm currently driving a Prius for this commute and my max and min MPG figures vary by 20%, with a high of 58 MPG and a low of 46, and MPG totally dependent on weather. If I assume 75 mile range for the Rav4 (I drive easy, no lead foot), would it be reasonable to estimate I'd be getting a range of around 65+ miles in the winter months and upwards of 80 miles under ideal conditions? I have to pick up my kids on the way home from work and don't want to ever worry about running out of charge on the way home during the cold, windy, rainy days we get during the winter months here in northern CA.

Thanks for any feedback!

 

[cwerdna]

Saw your post on MNL.

I think regardless of your driving habits, 75 miles should be no problem in a Rav4 EV. TonyWilliams got 130 miles on a rental before he bought his: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=240769#p240769. It seems he's FAR happier w/its range than he ever was w/his Leafs' range.

Also see results at bottom of http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/testing-electric-vehicles-in-the-real-world.html. I don't like how Edmunds added miles from each car's GOM (guess-o-meter) which is known to be wildly inaccurate on the Leaf.

My concerns about the Rav4 EV as with any EV are depreciation, battery replacement cost and repair costs of various EV specific bits (none are issue if leasing). For this car, I am bit concerned about the reliability of the Tesla powertrain bits judging by some folks having gear whine (like Tony) and some folks reporting that some had louder whine than others. I sure hope that Tesla/Toyota did enough long term durability testing. My other concern is what happens if Tesla goes under and some of the Tesla bits need repair/replacement.

EVSE compatibility on this car seems to be a bit hit/miss too. It could become an issue if you need to use public charging. Also, a big downside of the Rav4 EV is no CHAdeMO (DC fast charge port) nor any means of using other fast charge formats (e.g. http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger or Frankenplug). If this car only had a CHAdeMO port.

Unfortunately, leasing the Rav seems really expensive/unattractive next to the FFE or Leaf.

 

[occ]

If you don't drive with a lead foot, you can easily do 100 miles with normal charge. I just did 130 miles with 14 miles left on extended charge, driving with efficiency, but not like my grandma. I bought my Rav knowing I will keep it for as long as I can and hopefully, there will be battery replacement from Toyota or even Tesla in the future. cwerdna concerns are spot on, but we are still in the early stage of EVs, so no real guarantee anywhere. Nissan is the most committed as far as long term, and so is Tesla, but we can only hope Telsa stays around (I think they will). Toyota is a world class company, and I think they will stand by the few rav4ev owners, but I have doubts they will go further, seeing how the rav4ev are not selling well.

That said, I love the rav4ev, and until Tesla comes out with a less expensive EV, or Nissan double up on the LEAF's range, I don't see anything close to the utility of the rav4ev at this price range (with fed, state, toyota, and some dealers incentives).

 

[Dsinned]

snoltor, I think you are the ideal customer to commute and pick up your kids after school in a RAV4 EV. You should have no range anxiety whatsoever for your intended use, so long as you recharge each night. Don't talk yourself out of having a great EV with too much concern over non-issues.

 

[jspearman]

Thinking of buying an EV, test drove the Rav4 and loved it. Going to use it for my daily commute during the week. Most important question is will it do the job for me throughout the year? My daily commute is 50 miles, 80% on a major highway. Pretty much flat terrain in the Sacramento area. High temps in the summer 105+, cold temps this winter down to around 28F, but more often in the 40's with windy rain. Will the Rav4 get me to and from work every day throughout the year without any problems? I'm currently driving a Prius for this commute and my max and min MPG figures vary by 20%, with a high of 58 MPG and a low of 46, and MPG totally dependent on weather. If I assume 75 mile range for the Rav4 (I drive easy, no lead foot), would it be reasonable to estimate I'd be getting a range of around 65+ miles in the winter months and upwards of 80 miles under ideal conditions? I have to pick up my kids on the way home from work and don't want to ever worry about running out of charge on the way home during the cold, windy, rainy days we get during the winter months here in northern CA.

Thanks for any feedback!

You could make a 50-mile commute twice on 80% charge, ha. Try that with a Leaf! I had a Leaf and range anxiety became a real problem toward the end of our time with the car, but no such fears with the RAV: it loves highways. I needed a bottle of extra-strength Tums anytime I drove the Leaf over 60mph, as the range on the GOM would go from something ridiculous and impossible, like 90 miles, to 50 or 60. The Leaf is a great car if you live within its range, but if you have a 50 mile highway commute it is not the car for you.

 

[SeaMonster]

I do 110 miles regularly for work on an extended charge and I always have plenty to spare. Just last week I ran an errand with a friend on a regular charge. He said it was 100 miles so I said sure. Turns out it was 111 miles. I was on "Lo" when I got back, but it hadn't gone to turtle yet. And I wasn't driving slow. This was all freeway and we were rushing. I can drive much more efficiently than I did, but it didn't matter because we made it.

I've driven some long drives where I was on track to break 150 miles on a single charge. But I haven't yet actually driven all those miles. Someday I will.

 

[snoltor]

Thanks all for the great feedback. Very helpful. I have to say that test driving the Rav4 was just about the most exciting driving experience I've had in a long time, if not ever. Serious. I plan to use 80% charging if that works. Going to check out the Leaf next to consider EV options, but the extra range and utility of the Rav4 (usable storage space) may be hard to contend with. One more question (and maybe the info is here but I didn't find it yet): is there a list or map of public charging stations on this site or elsewhere?

Thanks again!

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
I don't think there's a definitive list but http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=109154 has numerous ideas.

 

[TonyWilliams]

There are lots of public charging sites and apps:

www.PlugShare.com also has an app

Recargo

CarStations

Blink

ChargePoint

SemaConnect

Several more....

 

[snoltor]

Thanks Tony, very helpful, I downloaded two of the apps. Quick question though: Does the Rav4 in fact have the same charger as the Leaf (J-1772? - I'm still learning nomenclature). I ask because the iPhone App Recargo indicates different "Native connectors" for the Leaf and Rav4. For the Rav4 it lists a "Small Paddle (SPI)", and others (NEMA etc), while for the Leaf it lists (J-1772) and others (NEMA etc). And then the map shows different available charging stations for each vehicle. Is that info in the App incorrect?

Thanks again!

There are lots of public charging sites and apps:

http://www.PlugShare.com also has an app

Recargo

CarStations

Blink

ChargePoint

SemaConnect

Several more....

 

[BSki]

J-1772 is the plug that goes into the Rav 4.

NEMA is an electrical outlet typically for 240v receptacles. If you have a 240v portable station, you would use a NEMA outlet to plug in your portable charge (its not really a charger as the charger is built into the Rav 4)

Leaf can also use ChadMo (or something like that) that the Rav 4 cannot use.

 

[Dsinned]

One more question (and maybe the info is here but I didn't find it yet): is there a list or map of public charging stations on this site or elsewhere?

Thanks again!

Yes, there are several apps available that list public charging stations. Also, the RAV4 EV comes with "Entunes' and there is an mobile phone app for that as well, which includes a "Charging Station Map". This might even be built in to the center console's "EV" apps, but may not be kept up to date by Toyota.

I recommend you apply for a Chargepoint card, which I think costs a new member $5 (and you may have to put a small deposit into your account there, as well as ;provide access to a credit card acct that can be used to fund the same acct as needed. in order to use a Chargepoint public charging station. After you are approved as a new mbr, they send you a RFD card to enable any of those stations so you can plug-in. Some are free, but you still need the access card.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes, the Rav4 EV uses two types of charge station connectors:

1997-2003 models - paddle type
2012 - newer - J1772

 

[khaliss]

posting my real world range experiment by taking a 90-mile roundtrip with ~5,200' elevation (home > Shaver Lake, CA). Took some pics.

Starting point (~98% extended charge, 390-ft above sea-level ):

At the lake (5,500-ft above sea level, 59-miles subtracted from GOM upon arrival):

Back home (only took a 17-mile GOM hit on the way back, even had eco-mode AC on halfway):

 

[BSki]

That is pretty amazing. You went 90 miles and had 43 remaining and 5,200 feet of elevation.

Those are really nice numbers.

 

[khaliss]

Yes, I was pleasantly surprised. As what several threads have already indicated, I do believe the Rav4 can easily do 140 miles on a full "extended" charge... given that you drive semi-conservatively, perhaps close to 150 on flat roads if you keep below the speed limit.

 

[occ]

Very nice khaliss! This gives me lots of confidence for going to our local ski resort, 70 miles one-way, about ~6000ft elevation (just to get there with some "feel good" reserves). Then on the way down there's plenty charging opportunity on the way home.

How fast and how far was your max freeway speed during the non-climbing part of your trip?

 

[occ]

That is pretty amazing. You went 90 miles and had 43 remaining and 5,200 feet of elevation.

Those are really nice numbers.

What's really significant about that 43 remaining number is that it's not just the "downhill" efficiency estimation. Notice that he has half fuel bars left! That's a good 50 miles remaining.

 

[khaliss]

Very nice khaliss! This gives me lots of confidence for going to our local ski resort, 70 miles one-way, about ~6000ft elevation (just to get there with some "feel good" reserves). Then on the way down there's plenty charging opportunity on the way home.

How fast and how far was your max freeway speed during the non-climbing part of your trip?

There is no freeway to get to the Lake from my house... it's all country road. I wasn't really hypermilling, but I would average around 55mph on flat parts, and about 45mph on uphills. I went mostly in "B" mode driving going downhill, and used so little braking... the Rav4 is very confident on corners, so I would go a bit faster compared to driving our minivan (a VW Routan, which handles pretty good too).

 

[snoltor]

If I assume 75 mile range for the Rav4 would it be reasonable to estimate I'd be getting a range of around 65+ miles in the winter months and upwards of 80 miles under ideal conditions?

Funny reading that now after driving the Rav4 EV for 2 and a half months and 2200 miles. Drove 1207 miles in the Rav4 EV in June with an entunes estimate of 4.0 mpkwh. No secret here: 25 mile commute one direction, flat terrain, traffic flow is usually good and predictable, 5+ miles on 25 mph city streets, 19+ miles on route 80 and I drive in the slow lane, 55 on the highway when it's safe. Been driving this route in my Prius for 3 and a half years so I've learned where to milk it for what it's worth. Next month I want to have fun and use the car. But here's some food for thought.

So using the 4.0 mpkwh estimate and the 1207 miles, the battery used up about 302 kwh for those miles. Applying 15% on top of that (Kohler estimates 322 Watts per mile from Entunes, 379 Watts per mile from the wall, so a 15.1% loss during charging), this suggests that I used about 355 kwh to charge the car for the month. I've been charging for free at work but if I'd been charging at home and IF that had cost me an average 13 cents / kwh (somebody please correct me if that 13 cent estimate is off base) then I would have paid about $46 for that electricity. With gas costing $3.80 up here, I could have bough 12.1 gallons with that money. So looking at it that way the Rav4 got the price equivalent of about 99 miles per gallon. Of course that's heavily dependent on the real number of kwh I used, the price of a kwh and the price of gas. But hands down this car is cheap to drive and I love it. After 2200 miles I am sort of expecting the screen of death, but I'll deal with that. With Toyota throwing in the towel and moving on to hydrogen, the truth is I feel lucky to have gotten a hold of one of these cars.

Another thing: Last time I went to a gas station was exactly one month ago to fill up my Prius. I like that.