RAV4 EV Vs Bolt Performance & Other Stuff

[cashcow]

RAV4 EV

Dimensions: 180″ L x 72″ W x 66″ H
Weight: ‎4,032 lb
Horse Power: 115 kW (154 hp)
Torque: 296 N·m (220 ft·lb) Normal 370 N·m (270 ft·lb) Sport
Final drive Ratio: 9.73:1?
Drag Coefficient of 0.3
0 to 60: 5.6 Sec or 7 Sec

Chevrolet Bolt

Dimensions: 164″ L x 70″ W x 63″ H
Weight: 3,580 lbs
Horse Power: 150 kW (200 hp) permanent magnet motor/generator
Torque: 266 lb.ft./360 Nm
Final drive Ratio: 7.05:1
Drag Coefficient of 0.32
0 to 60: 6.5 Sec


Differences?

Rav4 EV is...
Dimensions: 16" Longer x 2" Wider x 3" Taller
Weight: 452 Lbs Heavier
Horse Power: 46 Hp Weaker
Torque: 4 lb.ft./10 Nm Stronger
Final Drive Ratio: 2.68:1 Slower
Drag Coefficient of 0.02 Better
0 to 60: 0.5 Sec Slower


So it looks like the cards are stacked against us, but it would seem the vehicles are also somewhat similar to each other. What draws my attention is that we are only 0.5 seconds slower in the 0 to 60 over the Bolt which I find interesting. I'm wondering if the slight difference is because the Bolt has a permanent magnet motor and the rav4 ev has an induction motor which from a tesla blog says that ac induction motors are better for high end performance.

Horse Power to Weight Ratio
RAV4 EV: 0.0382
Bolt: 0.0559

452 Lb is (452÷(4032÷100=40.32)=11.21031746) <- sorry if my math is wrong!

11.21031746% Weight reduction for the Rav4 EV, so a little over 10% weight reduction. If we were to apply the % directly it would reduce the Rav4 EV's 0 to 60 by 0.7847 seconds making it do 0 to 60 in 6.2153 seconds. I doubt it would work this way.

Specifically I have two questions:

1. Since the 0 to 60 is only 0.5 in difference could we expect equal or better 0 to 60 performance from the rav4 ev if we REDUCE the weight of the RAV4 EV by 452 Lbs?

2. Does the Bolt have traction issues like the RAV4 EV on same type of road when you floor it? If it does the vehicles would be more evenly match. If it doesn't or not as much as the RAV4 EV, that would mean a suspension adjustment could give us the needed traction for a better 0 to 60?

And if we do both... can we have equal or sub 6 second zero to sixty runs? ?

 

[TonyWilliams]

There are people that are happy with the Bolt EV, after owning the RAV4 EV.

Unfortunately, a sub-compact Bolt with a teeny, tiny rear storage area and uncomfortable (for me) front seats is a non-starter.

As to making any vehicle faster, there's nothing that can't be solved with money!!!

 

[michael]

I just took a 140 mile trip at freeway speeds in our Bolt, returned home with 95 miles still remaining.

Yes, it's smaller than the Rav was, but it does so much more. And the lease is far less expensive than it was on the Rav.

Never mind the fact that when the first motor in the Rav started howling, it took months and months to get it fixed. When the replacement motor started howling, I didn't even bother to get it fixed, just waited the remaining months til the lease expired and turned it in as-is.

The Rav is a six year old design. In its day it was impressive. Its day has passed.

 

[cashcow]

I just took a 140 mile trip at freeway speeds in our Bolt, returned home with 95 miles still remaining.

Yes, it's smaller than the Rav was, but it does so much more. And the lease is far less expensive than it was on the Rav.

Never mind the fact that when the first motor in the Rav started howling, it took months and months to get it fixed. When the replacement motor started howling, I didn't even bother to get it fixed, just waited the remaining months til the lease expired and turned it in as-is.

The Rav is a six year old design. In its day it was impressive. Its day has passed.

What so much more does it do?

The people that qualified for the federal rebate, state rebate, and also the free money on the hood from Toyota got the best deals. Did you qualify for the free toyota money on the hood? Last I spoke with a guy that had JDEMO in his RAV4 EV he said with the current prices he could sell his RAV4 EV and make money off it. I recall checking and it was true he could make a couple of good grands off the rav4 ev. It was a killer deal.

Like Tony the Bolt is far too small for me too. The performance aspect for 0 to 60 between both is so close, I would probably still settle for the RAV4 EV /w ext warranty due to it's legacy/induction motor/Tesla under pinnings. Maybe if they were equal size and had sub 6 second zero to sixty performance could I then pick up the bolt. The range hasn't been much of an issue, though I haven't driven out far yet. I do have a trip planned at some point, but I want to do some aero tweaks before doing it to see how much extra range I can get from the rav4 ev. I think if I could hit 200 miles per charge I'd be quite happy.

 

[michael]

What so much more does it do?

The people that qualified for the federal rebate, state rebate, and also the free money on the hood from Toyota got the best deals. Did you qualify for the free toyota money on the hood? Last I spoke with a guy that had JDEMO in his RAV4 EV he said with the current prices he could sell his RAV4 EV and make money off it. I recall checking and it was true he could make a couple of good grands off the rav4 ev. It was a killer deal.

Like Tony the Bolt is far too small for me too. The performance aspect for 0 to 60 between both is so close, I would probably still settle for the RAV4 EV /w ext warranty due to it's legacy/induction motor/Tesla under pinnings. Maybe if they were equal size and had sub 6 second zero to sixty performance could I then pick up the bolt. The range hasn't been much of an issue, though I haven't driven out far yet. I do have a trip planned at some point, but I want to do some aero tweaks before doing it to see how much extra range I can get from the rav4 ev. I think if I could hit 200 miles per charge I'd be quite happy.

The main thing more it does it that it goes an extra hundred miles on a charge; and it includes DCFC. Like I said, I took a trip with ease (140 freeway miles) that would have been a squeaker when the car was new, and would have been impossible with tired, three year old batteries.

Yes, of course I got a good deal on the Rav three years ago (actually, probably one of the best deals around, got it when payments were pretty much as low as they ever got), but I also got a good deal on the Bolt a month ago. I got $7500 in federal and will get an additional $2500 in state money on the Bolt that I would not have gotten had I kept the Rav. I got DCFC for about $3000 less than it would have cost to retrofit DCFC to the Rav. I avoided the cost of an extended warranty.

My payments dropped by about $150 a month. The main thing that I lost was the unlimited miles lease which was a huge benefit over the years I had the Rav but no longer matter to me (change in job situation)

If one can make a few thousand selling off their Rav, I think they should consider doing so and putting the money toward a new, modern EV. In my case I was happy to give it back to Toyota.

 

[jgblair]

We bought out our RAV lease a year ago. We considered all of our options before we did. We live in a rural area with three big dogs, so we need a SUV. At that time, there were no other options. The Tesla Model X did not have fold down rear seats, they only moved forward. Now they offer seats that fold down. Besides the price, I really don't like the fancy wing doors on the X. We used a Ford Windstar for longer trips with our brood, and the RAV for anything a 100 miles or so less. A few months later, the Windstar died on a trip to Southern California, so I was forced to abandon it and rent a car. It was not economical to fix, so we had to make the decision again what to do. We elected to spend the money for a JdeMO DCFC for the RAV and now use it for the 1200 mile round trips 4-5 times a year. Sure, I'd love to have a car with the Bolt's range, but the RAV's size has much more utility for us.

I have recommended the Leaf to friends for years if they don't need to travel longer distances. I now also recommend the Bolt if they don't need to carry a lot of stuff. With charging the way it is currently, a car that uses CHAdeMO (like the RAV and Leaf) rather than CCS (like the Bolt) has more flexibility for long distance travel due to availability of chargers. In a few years it may be different. By then, maybe we will have another SUV choice. Right now, our only backup choice would be a used Model S and squeeze a little to get everyone in.

 

[michael]

.The range hasn't been much of an issue, though I haven't driven out far yet. I do have a trip planned at some point, but I want to do some aero tweaks before doing it to see how much extra range I can get from the rav4 ev. I think if I could hit 200 miles per charge I'd be quite happy.

If you can hit 200 miles per charge, you should be thrilled. Several years ago, people were talking about 200 mile trips

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=183

Only a handful of people did this, typically with average speeds around 30-40 MPH.

If you can do that with a battery that's at least four years old, that would be an impressive feat.

 

[geo]

So it looks like the cards are stacked against us, but it would seem the vehicles are also somewhat similar to each other. What draws my attention is that we are only 0.5 seconds slower in the 0 to 60 over the Bolt which I find interesting. I'm wondering if the slight difference is because the Bolt has a permanent magnet motor and the rav4 ev has an induction motor which from a tesla blog says that ac induction motors are better for high end performance.

I think the difference is that GM is simply more conservative with their vehicles. It is likely that they purposely limit performance to ensure better reliability and/or more safety and/or some other combination of factors.

Tesla seems to be much more willing to push their vehicles to the absolute limit. This might be one reason why we've seen a much higher rate of motor failure.