RAV4 EV Customer Disclosure Form

[ToddR]

Back in February I bought my RAV4 EV from Keyes Toyota in Van Nuys, and last week I received a series of urgent calls from the dealer claiming Toyota sent them a disclosure form that they need me to complete and sign. (below)

Anyone else asked to complete such a form? Why would I after the fact?? Specifically the part about battery capacity reduction not being covered under warranty.

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NEW VEHICLE SALES DEPARTMENT
RAV4 EV CUSTOMER DISCLOSURE FORM — IMPORTANT CUSTOMER INFORMATION (Review with RAV4 EV Customer at Time of Order or Sales Acknowledgement)
DEALER:
(PRINT DEALER NAME)
DEALER CODE:
PLEASE READ AND INITIAL THE FOLLOWING IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT THE RAV4 EV. Retain a copy in your glove box for future reference. Your Authorized Toyota RAV4 EV Dealer can also answer your questions.
THIS VEHICLE HAS A LIMITED RANGE AND BATTERY LIFE.
• The RAV4 EV is an all-electric vehicle with limited driving range.
• The EPA-rated driving range of the new RAV4 EV is 103 miles; the range may be less over time.
• The range will vary considerably due to driving styles, degrees of acceleration, accessory load (e.g., heater and A/C usage), operating environment and road conditions.
• Your RAV4 EV is equipped with a high capacity Lithium-ion Battery that is designed to function as long as possible. However, like all batteries, it will eventually wear out. As the battery wears with time and use, capacity and vehicle range will decrease. This can be accelerated with excessive use of extended charge mode.
• While the battery is covered by an 8-year/100,000-mile defect warranty, battery capacity reduction is not covered under the 8-year/100,000-mile
warranty. Customer's initials
A TOYOTA-APPROVED LEVEL 2 (240V) 30A OR 40A CHARGING STATION (EVSE) COMPLIANT WITH SAE J1772 STANDARD IS NECESSARY FOR BATTERY RECHARGING.
• Toyota strongly recommends that prior to delivery, you install at your residence a Toyota-approved Level 2 (240V) 30A or 40A charging station or that you have immediate access to a Level 2 charging station.
• Recharging a depleted battery will take approximately 5 — 6 hours on a Level 2 40A or 6.5 — 8 hours on a Level 2 30A charging station,
• Leviton is a Toyota-approved provider of home EV charging stations and installation services. Leviton's Level 2 16A, 30A, and 40A Toyota-program models and EVR-green series have been extensively tested and approved for use with the RAV4 EV and Prius Plug-in. To contact Leviton, go to www.leviton.com/toyota or call 1-855-5 PLUGIN.
• If applicable. I agree to accept delivery of a RAV4 EV without having installed a Toyota-approved (Leviton) 240V 30A or 40A EVSE, and release & hold dealer and Toyota harmless from any damages resulting from this decision. Customer Signature: VIN (if available):
• The Level 1 (120V) 12A charging cable that comes with the vehicle should not be used as your primary method charging; it should be used only when Level 2 charging is unavailable.
• Battery recharging can take approximately 44+ hours on Level 1 charging, when fully depleted. To reduce the risk of fire hazard or electrical shock, follow the handling precautions and operation instructions detailed in your Quick Reference Guide and on the charging cable label,
• Always have a qualified licensed electrician check the home circuit and wall receptacle before using the 120V charging cable.
Customer's initials
RAV4 EV HAS SPECIAL MAINTENANCE, SERVICE AND DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS THAT DIFFER FROM OTHER TOYOTA VEHICLES.
• RAV4 EV has unique maintenance requirements, including special coolant, which should be done by an Authorized Toyota RAV4 EV dealership.
• You should visit your Authorized Toyota RAV4 EV Dealer for all scheduled maintenance. Software updates may be available and installed at that time.
• Tesla Motors, the powertrain and battery manufacturer, will periodically remotely collect data about your RAV4 EV's powertrain performance for analytical and product quality purposes. While the VIN will be identified, this information does not include vehicle location or personal information.
• Your RAV4 EV includes three (3) years of roadside assistance, valid only in the Continental United States and Alaska. This coverage includes towing for failure of a warranted part.
• A service provider will tow the vehicle to the closest Authorized Toyota RAV4 EV Dealer within 100 miles of the vehicle's location. If the vehicle is located in excess of 100 miles from an Authorized Toyota RAV4 EV Dealer, then the vehicle will be towed to the nearest Toyota dealer and the customer will be responsible for additional towing charges to return the vehicle to an Authorized Toyota RAV4 EV Dealer, if necessary.
• If the vehicle is eligible for Toyota Care, it can only be redeemed at an Authorized Toyota RAV4 EV Dealer in California. Customer's initials
DUE TO HIGH VOLTAGE AND THE RISK OF INJURY THIS VEHICLE'S POWERTRAIN AND HIGH VOLTAGE SYSTEMS SHOULD BE SERVICED AT AN AUTHORIZED TOYOTA RAV4 EV DEALERSHIP.
• The RAV4 EV is being offered for sale in certain California markets.
• While some standard maintenance or repairs can be performed by any Toyota dealer, powertrain and high voltage component maintenance or repairs should be performed by an Authorized Toyota RAV4 EV Dealer. To locate an Authorized Toyota RAV4 EV Dealer, go to www.toyota.com/RAV4EV or contact our Toyota Customer Experience Center at 1-800-331-4331.
• Because warranty service for your electric powertrain can only be performed by an Authorized Toyota RAV4 EV Dealer in California, Toyota does not recommend home-basing the vehicle outside the State of California. Customer's initials
PLEASE REFER TO YOUR TOYOTA OWNERS MANUAL, WARRANTY AND MAINTENANCE GUIDE, AND QUICK REFERENCE GUIDE FOR ADDITIONAL IMPORTANT INFORMATION.
, hereby acknowledge that I have carefully read and understand the
(PRINT CUSTOMER NAME)
written information contained in this document and accept these terms and conditions on vehicle performance, use and maintenance, prior to my RAV4 EV purchase.
Acknowledged by: Reviewed by:
(CUSTOMER SIGNATURE AND DATE) (SALES MANAGER SIGNATURE AND DATE)
00604-RAVO2 1_30_13

 

[reeler]

Don't sign it. Why would you?

 

[jspearman]

If the car is in your possession then stick your middle finger in the air and point it toward Van Nuys, cause Toyota is attempting to shaft you post-sale. That's very sleazy of them.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Maybe offer to sign it for $1000 ?

Car dealers are generally so slimy that I probably wouldn't even waste my time responding at all.

 

[TonyWilliams]

• Your RAV4 EV includes three (3) years of roadside assistance, valid only in the Continental United States and Alaska. This coverage includes towing for failure of a warranted part.
• A service provider will tow the vehicle to the closest Authorized Toyota RAV4 EV Dealer within 100 miles of the vehicle's location. If the vehicle is located in excess of 100 miles from an Authorized Toyota RAV4 EV Dealer, then the vehicle will be towed to the nearest Toyota dealer and the customer will be responsible for additional towing charges to return the vehicle to an Authorized Toyota RAV4 EV Dealer, if necessary.

So, they will tow anywhere in the USA except Hawaii, but only to an Authorized dealer.

How much will it cost to tow to California from Alaska?

 

[miimura]

I got a call from my salesperson at DCH Oxnard this week saying they had something for me to sign. At the time, I did not know what it was about. The General Sales Manager later e-mailed me a very poorly scanned copy of this document to sign and return. However, I had already signed it at the time of purchase, so I scanned the one from my records and e-mailed it back to them.

 

[jspearman]

Toyota knows they are stuck fixing them unless they have this form signed, and even then you could probably force the issue.

My plan is to go after them under the lemon law here with the BBB, same as a lot of people did with Nissan (I went the scorched earth route). I've got visit #1 down where they didn't fix my car, so I only need one more visit and I'm good. They have to buy it back at the $50K price+tax, regardless of incentives, minus a bit of mileage. So if they offer me that number and I can then buy a Model S, all's good. I'm sure they read this site, just as Nissan read MNL, so hi Toyota, I'll see you soon!

 

[Philly RAV4 EV]

So where do I fall into this, I bought my Rav used?

 

[the2bobs]

I bought mine in April and they already had this form as a requirement at signing time. I didn't see anything in there that I didn't know (although the requirement for the Leviton charger didn't seem enforceable). I have the Toyota approved Leviton charger anyway and that still didn't save me from having "Check EV System" issues that required 4 dealer visits so far and over 30 days in the shop.

 

[ToddR]

In reality ANY cars efficiency (either in MPG or in range on a tank of gas) degrades over time, but they went out any guaranteed the battery for 8 years / 100K miles. That said, based on my experience with laptop Li packs, one of the majors ways these battery packs degrade is by cumulative failure of individual cells. If a cell in a pack fails, how is that not a defect?

As to degradation rate, this paper (http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6228224), tends to show 60% capacity degradation at 1000 charge/discharge cycles (1000x100miles = 100,000 miles?), the paper also notes degradation is accelerated by high charge / discharge currents.

The way I see it is Toyota (Tesla) better hope these cell/packs get much cheaper in a few years

From the thing I didn't sign:
• Your RAV4 EV is equipped with a high capacity Lithium-ion Battery that is designed to function as long as possible. However, like all batteries, it will eventually wear out. As the battery wears with time and use, capacity and vehicle range will decrease. This can be accelerated with excessive use of extended charge mode.
• While the battery is covered by an 8-year/100,000-mile defect warranty, battery capacity reduction is not covered under the 8-year/100,000-mile

 

[Ampster]

In reality ANY cars efficiency (either in MPG or in range on a tank of gas) degrades over time, but they went out any guaranteed the battery for 8 years / 100K miles. That said, based on my experience with laptop Li packs, one of the majors ways these battery packs degrade is by cumulative failure of individual cells. If a cell in a pack fails, how is that not a defect?

As to degradation rate, this paper (http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6228224), tends to show 60% capacity degradation at 1000 charge/discharge cycles (1000x100miles = 100,000 miles?), the paper also notes degradation is accelerated by high charge / discharge currents.

...........

One of the ways that Tesla has managed the pack construction is to have a large number of cells in parallel. This strategy should mitigate against what we observe in a laptop pack which consists of single cells in series. In the laptop example if one cell in a series string goes back the whole pack goes bad. In the Tesla construction if one cell in parallel goes bad it will reduce the capacity by the watthours in that cell (6-9 Watthours) which is a small fraction of a 50kWhr pack. I think the Tesla pack will not degrade as fast as suggested in the article.

I couldn't link to the complete article but I have to guess that they are talking about discharge and charge rates above 1C that gave them such a low cycle life. At a full 6 kWhrs charging rate, that is 1/10C so Tesla has confidence that their pack design, management an construction will last longer than the typical laptop pack, and certainly degrade less than those in the cited article.

That being said, I do think Toyota and Tesla have different risk management strategies and I understand why a big corporation like Toyota would try to but in as much weasel language as they can get away with. I don't like it either, but I have confidence in Tesla. I'm not going to worry about battery degradation as much in my car than if I had a Leaf or some other EV without the track record of the Tesla pack.

 

[TonyWilliams]

In reality ANY cars efficiency (either in MPG or in range on a tank of gas) degrades over time, but they went out any guaranteed the battery for 8 years / 100K miles.
• While the battery is covered by an 8-year/100,000-mile defect warranty, battery capacity reduction is not covered under the 8-year/100,000-mile

That is REQUIRED in California... same with hybrids with 10 year / 150,000 miles. They aren't doing you a favor.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I think the Tesla pack will not degrade as fast as suggested in the article.

Laptop batteries aren't climate controlled.

Automotive batteries aren't typically pushed as hard as laptop batteries (depth of charge/discharge, etc).

 

[evsinav]

I signed it with the pack of lease documents at the dealer, but if you didn't no reason to sign now.