2013 Rav4 EV Owner Since 2016 - Owner Experience

Hello Everyone,

I just wanted to share our experience with the Rav4 EV and hopefully it can serve as a cautionary tale for potential buyers. I know that there are some in this forum (Tony Williams and the like) usually in California, who know this car inside and out and if you are located in that area there is a good chance you will have a very different experience. My wife and I live in Washington state just south of Seattle and from the first day we got this car it was non-stop problems. What really made things difficult is that it seemed like nobody could service it. I know this will not be everyone's experience but I would encourage you to factor the availability of quality service into your decision making.

We bought the car in November of 2016. The day after we drove it home we plugged it in and it did not charge. Would charge for a few seconds then give the flashing lights error. The car had charged the day before while we were test driving it but for some reason it was now unable to charge. This caused our first extended service trip to Toyota of Kirkland. It waited in service for nearly a month for a Tesla rep to be flown in and parts to be ordered and I was handed a $3000 repair bill for a failed heater. I negotiated a discounted repair bill with an extended warranty purchase and felt like I would be safe from future problems. This was mistake #2, if you do buy an extended warranty for this car only buy the Toyota Warranties. Despite buying the warranty from Toyota of Kirkland it was not through Toyota. It was from protective, which I was assured was a great warranty. Unfortunately this warranty company was not familiar at all with what they were covering and denied multiple claims.

It was not all bad and we had a good run of about 2 years with minimal problems. However we would still get strange behavior from the car. It would stop charging halfway full but then would go back to functioning perfectly. If we had taken it in for every little strange error it would have been at least every 3 months. I took it in after a few errors and it was functioning fine by the time I got to the dealership. They showed me how to clear the errors and suggested maybe a charger problem. We changed chargers... earlier this year it left me stranded. Had never seen this problem before. Car would turn on and not go into gear with the familiar take to dealership message. We had it towed to Toyota of Kirkland. The last two times we had the car serviced at Toyota of Kirkland seemed different than the first. I am not sure if the relationship broke down with Tesla to the point where they were no longer willing to come work on the cars or what, but all of our recent services were done by a Toyota Hybrid Tech working off instructions given to them from Tesla. The tech spoke with Tesla who told him to drain the battery and charge to full again. This service cost us $500. I would not have agreed to this had I realized that the tech was simply driving it around until the battery was empty. I was under the impression that the car was still not operable. Somehow the car started running again after it was towed in. This started a pattern where the car would simply not start or charge, we would take it in for service and it would after a time start working again. The problems we encountered were random and hard to duplicate. They happened on multiple chargers and worst of all the warranty would not cover it as "nothing was repaired". Essentially they could not figure out what was wrong. We would simply drain the battery, clear the error messages and tell us it was fine. This last six months was nearly weekly charging failures with a full on no drive about once a month. Usually it would start working again after a few hours.

We have finally parted ways with the car at well below its KBB value. I loved how it drove, I loved the $4000 we saved in gas and if service wasn't so expensive and hard to get I might have had a different experience. Unfortunately the gas savings was more than offset by repair bills/cost of chargers and installation and the loss we took selling a car with problems. Be careful buying this car outside of California even if the dealership tells you they can service it. The Kirkland dealership said I would have no problems getting it serviced and that was not the case. Hoping the best for all of you. Wish this car would have worked out.

Member KurtManz had terrible service at ToK. When I bought my 2014 in Aug2017, I shopped for the Toyota extended used car warranty, and ToK had the best price for the area, so I paid their $150 inspection fee and bought the warranty through them. I sometimes buy parts there, because they're convenient on my commute. But I don't let them touch the RAV4 EV.

Toyota of Seattle has been pretty good to me for service. They have several drive unit replacements under their belt, and did mine, and the heater, and the DC-DC converter. However, they did sit on my car for two weeks last time -- needed a battery replacement -- before finally admitting that I would have to deliver (ship) the car back to Calif. for the "free" battery replacement. Why couldn't they have told me that two or three days in? Hell, I guessed and told them it was a battery issue when I had it towed to them.
Toyota did eventually send me a check to reimburse for $800 shipping cost south, but getting it back to Seattle was on me.

[Oh, and I had to fight Toyota Roadside Assistance to reimburse the towing. They wanted to tow to the closest dealership -- ToK! -- and I said absolutely not, and I paid the tow driver out of pocket to tow a further 10 miles to ToS instead. Took a couple of phone calls, but the did eventually send a reimbursement check for that out of pocket tow expense.]

Nearly every major Tesla part has been replaced on my 2014: DU, battery, DC-DC converter, onboard charger, heater (Denso). Knock on wood, the Tesla/Toyota Gateway box has not crapped yet. No problems on the Toyota side. I guess maybe the flaky scheduler, that I could blame on Toyota, but really it's the Tesla parts that have failed. Toyota's dealers give uneven service. It's very much a YMMV situation. Next up will likely be one or more of the coolant pumps, or the Gateway box.

I'm considering trading down to a MB 250e, as they're coming down to a more reasonable price on the used market. Paramount Motors NW has a couple for sale in Seattle, I may go drive one. Longtime member GlennD had two of them and seemed to like them. Less range, better ride I'm hoping. The RAV4's ride is beginning to get old at 60 miles/day; otherwise, I still really like it. My major hesitation with the 250e is that it's a MB. I've owned several, and while all were beautiful cars, none have been reliable. Something is always broken, and I'm no longer interested in that much maintenance for a DD.

We have a Model 3D and it's too low (both seat and roofline) for easy ingress/egress for me, I hate the door handles, and I do not like the touch screen for adjusting mirrors, wipers, etc. Fortunately, my partner is short I like the RAV4's seating position and seat height, as well as its utility. It's a form factor that works well for me.

What did you replace your RAV4 with?

Unfortunately, the error reporting in the RAV4 EV is really terrible. It is possible that the on-board charger doesn't like something about the electrical power at your house and that's why it stops charging randomly. Another owner in the California Sierra foothills had a similar problem and they finally found out that there was a problem with their electrical service. After the utility fixed the problem, the car charged perfectly.

asavage said:

I'm considering trading down to a MB 250e, as they're coming down to a more reasonable price on the used market. Paramount Motors NW has a couple for sale in Seattle, I may go drive one. Longtime member GlennD had two of them and seemed to like them. Less range, better ride I'm hoping. The RAV4's ride is beginning to get old at 60 miles/day; otherwise, I still really like it. My major hesitation with the 250e is that it's a MB. I've owned several, and while all were beautiful cars, none have been reliable. Something is always broken, and I'm no longer interested in that much maintenance for a DD.

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I looked at the MB 250e previously. The drivetrain components are very similar to the RAV4 EV. Both have Tesla sourced drive units, traction battery and chargers. Maybe the later ones got more recent versions of the Tesla drive units...

RAV4Ever said:

I looked at the MB 250e previously. The drivetrain components are very similar to the RAV4 EV. Both have Tesla sourced drive units, traction battery and chargers. Maybe the later ones got more recent versions of the Tesla drive units...

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The 2014-2015 Mercedes B-Class ED uses the GEN1 Tesla hardware, the same as the 2012-2014 Toyota RAV4 EV.

The 2016-2017 Mercedes B250e uses the GEN2 Tesla hardware. The GEN2 stuff is much more reliable.

Gazoo said:

Hello Everyone, I just wanted to share our experience with the Rav4 EV and hopefully it can serve as a cautionary tale for potential buyers... Hoping the best for all of you. Wish this car would have worked out.

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I think that this can be distilled into a few simple issues:

1) You already realized that a dealer will sell you anything that makes them money, and tell you anything to get you to buy. With a little due diligence, you know that the Toyota PLATINUM warranty is the ONLY way to go for dependable warranty repairs on RAV4 EV.

2) Yes, being outside of the major California metropolitan areas makes servicing the RAV4 EV more difficult. But, I'm not aware of Toyota actually abandoning ANY of the cars, wherever they may be. There are literally hundreds of these cars outside of California, as well as outside of the USA.

3) The onboard charger issue could have been anything, and clearly, this dealer was way out of their element. I wish you would have called us at QC Charge, even if just for free advice and emotional support. We repair these cars almost daily.

4) I'm more perplexed that you would essentially "give the car away". We are a buyer for troublesome cars.

miimura said:

Unfortunately, the error reporting in the RAV4 EV is really terrible. It is possible that the on-board charger doesn't like something about the electrical power at your house and that's why it stops charging randomly. Another owner in the California Sierra foothills had a similar problem and they finally found out that there was a problem with their electrical service. After the utility fixed the problem, the car charged perfectly.

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Yep. It could have been as simple as a GFCI or ground issue in the house. Or, a utility transformer issue.

asavage said:

I'm considering trading down to a MB 250e, as they're coming down to a more reasonable price on the used market.

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I've owned both the 2014 original B-Class ED, and currently have the 2017 B250e. Those cars have less room than RAV4 EV, less power, less "utility" (no roof rack option, no trailer hitch option).

We now have JdeMO available for the Mercedes, just like the RAV4 EV.

If you want a car that is more dependable, and is mostly like a RAV4 EV, I'd recommend the 2016-2017 B250e.

Thanks, Tony. I went and looked at one today, 2016, 21k miles, $20k. It looks better in person than I'd thought. I need to do some homework.

I don't need the power the RAV4 EV has -- it's nice, but not necessary in my world. I don't need a receiver hitch; I like the idea of being able to tow a small util trailer, but the reality is that I sold my util trailer five years ago and haven't really missed it -- rented one twice in that time. I have a AWD Sienna that I used last month to tow serious stuff to Oregon, reminds me why I keep the minivan around.

The 250e does look smaller in back, and that may be an issue. I have a dog cage I use in the back of the RAV4 -- two black labs -- and the cage just barely fits. I think it may not fit in the 250e. Maybe it's time to graduate the dogs to cage-free. Kinda doubt it: black labs are not retrievers.

Really, I need to decide if I can live with the lower range. My 60 mi. daily commute is 2/3 highway, 60 MPH, and the 250e's better aero may be OK-enough to compensate for the overall lower range. Dunno.

From what I'm reading, seems like the same motor coolant leak problem that affects our RAV4 EVs is an issue with the MB 250e.

TonyWilliams said:

3) The onboard charger issue could have been anything, and clearly, this dealer was way out of their element. I wish you would have called us at QC Charge, even if just for free advice and emotional support. We repair these cars almost daily.

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Thanks for the offer. I have lurked on these forums long enough to know the value of Tony Williams and QC Charge and your value to this ownership group. You are probably right. I probably could have made a better fiscal decision that involved some sort of repair on the car and I definitely learned the difference between a warranty (sold my a manufacturer of a good) and a used car warranty (essentially an insurance policy sold by an insurance company and we all know how much fun dealing with insurance companies is). You replied to a post of mine early on regarding my initial problems with the car and there were multiple posts that you contributed to that helped me during my ownership of the car. In the end it just was too much drama especially in the last year when it became the primary driver for my wife who had the longer commute. I haven't given up on EV's, but I think I will let the industry age a bit more before I step back in.

Yes, of course the Mercedes and RAV4 EV share the same motor.

I just passed 90K miles with my 2013 that i've owned since it was new and its still perking along. I have JDEMO on it but i dont use it that much (because now i live in the Sierra's full time since retiring and i rarely drive anywhere thats far enough i need to charge away from home. The only time i use it is when i swap it to my son in the Bay Area. "reported" range is down to about 75 miles at "full" (not extended) charge, extended charge does nothing on the car now (in fact it breaks charging). However you dont get any additional range from it anyway. However its great for trips to Lowes and such which is what i use the car for now.

(And yeah i have a TeslaModel3 now too, which i just drove 5700miles to Texas, Iowa and back here, the longest trip i've ever made in an electric-only vehicle).

I have had the experience of charging the car from my whole-house Propane generator because of PG&E now, and that even works.

I'm late to this thread... but I'll add my $0.02
These cars can be the source of some character building adventures.
My last one was that I let the Entune Membership expire... bad mistake... You'd think that calling back and updating credit card information, see charge go through would fix this...
oh no. no no no. no for this car... The money was charged, but the entune app would not work. It must be that I need a new contract ID and figure out where they hid that menu!
oh no. no no no. not this time mr. smart pans... that won't work again!

Long story short it took about 3 days and probably 10 hours on the phone with 3 different toyota departments referring me to each other in a loop. (entune, "customer experience", and some other group)... eventually I found one audacious rep who made it his mission to figure out how to fix this... and found the "environmental department".
"Well that's a new one, I never heard of that one " I said... and from the receiver I heard back a chuckle and a "you're not the only one bud...".

I guess we're buds now... this could be good.

They sent me the the place I should have known to look for in the first place: Alex G. The current guy in charge of Rav4EVs. He knew what was up.. told me to wait a couple of days for him to contact the IT department to change something in their back end.

A couple of days later things just started magically working.

While I was on the phone with him I asked him about service for these cars outside of Ca. He said a number of toyota dealers now were able to service them. ToK is one of them... so maybe things are better now?

I'm getting close to the 50K mark... I expect at that point I'll start looking for advice on changing the coolants. I don't want them to become corrosive and create problems... so I'm sure another character building adventure awaits in the new year!!

Aasavage seems to have had good luck at ToS.. so I'll call them too next year to see if they'd do it.

Tony: any advice on changing the coolants? I don't remember having found advice about that...

Yes, I can recommend Toyota of Seattle for service. Aside from the delaaaaaay in letting me know it was on me to get the car shipped to Calif. for the battery change, they've been good, and I'm picky about service, so that means something.

KurtManz said:

Tony: any advice on changing the coolants? I don't remember having found advice about that...

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You can use pH strips to determine if the coolant is ready to be changed:

Testing the Coolant pH

pH testing is performed whenever cooling system maintenance service is requested, or if there is reason to suspect the coolant has outlived its useful life. It can be accomplished with test strips that turn color based on the level of acidity in the coolant, or electronic testers that measure the pH of the coolant directly can be used. pH testing of coolant is a great way to determine if the corrosion inhibitors are still working in the anti-freeze. As corrosion inhibitors break down over time, the solution of water and anti-freeze will become more acidic. As the acid level builds, so will corrosion and electrolysis in the cooling system. If the coolant is left in this acidic condition, it will create permanent erosion to component surfaces that may require replacement of affected components.
To test the coolant pH, follow the steps:

1. Ensure that the coolant is relatively cool before removing the radiator cap.

2. If using a pH test strip kit, read the instructions to know how long to dip the strip in the coolant, and how long to wait to compare the color of the test pad to the chart. Also, some strips have a second test pad on the strip that indicates the percentage of anti-freeze in the coolant, so verify the time for that also.

3. Dip litmus paper into the coolant and wait the amount of time directed by the instructions. Compare the color of the litmus paper to the color scale on the kit.

Thank you Tony!
quick question... how much would your shop change for a coolant replacement?

long story...

I have been using test strips for over a year since I read one of your suggestions.
The values are still in the "ok" range and I have never lost any level with either of them.

I love this car and I want to keep it in as best condition as possible. it's just a funny feeling to have that you don't really have to do much beyond tire maintenance...

so I did something today...

I went to Toyota of Kirkland to ask about the 50K service (last weekend it turned 50K!) and

1. Good news: Yes, Toyota of Kirkland now does have techs who are certified to work on these cars. they told me that mine was the 2nd R4EV they'd seen this week and they could do it the same day.

2. Not so good news: Initially ToK quoted me $130 over the phone to do the service. That seemed reasonable, so I went there. But when I got there they changed the quote to $550. If I wanted to have ONLY the fluids replaced that would be $435. Oops. So I told them very politely that I would shop around and compare prices.

So I called Toyota of Seattle. They initially gave me the old story of "we have to call someone from Cali to help with this", and a few hours later they called and said that they could do the service in the ship after all. Price?. $420... (and later they called yet again to say they'd discovered that one of the coolants was the blue one that they didn't normally have and was more expensive... to their credit they offered to use the one I can buy on amazon for $25/gallon if I provided it myself)

So that left me wondering... is $450 comparable to what a similar service for an ICE would cost?

Kurt, they can't just use the coolant evacuatator they'd use on an ICE. IIRC, some valves have to be commanded to open during the procedure, unlike an ICE.

Honestly, without recalling the details, I remember looking into it a couple years back and thought to myself, "dealership rates".

Since I knew I'd be having the DU replaced before 60k, I skated the coolant change until then.

My two cents on warranty companies. I bought my 2013 from Carvana, and purchased the $1,500 Silverleaf warranty. At 85K, the traction motor started making "the noise". It took a month, but Riverview Toyota in Mesa AZ replaced the traction motor, and Silverleaf paid the $11K bill. The delay was the wait for a motor. They also paid the $800 bill for the replacement of the main fuse that went kablooey about three months later. My deductible both times was $50.

My only issue now is that the GOM only gives me 73-87 miles range. I do not drive the car everyday anymore, but when I do it is all freeway and pretty briskly. The dealer doesn't have a clue how to test the traction battery.

The Tony test brings it to 100, but it does not last long at that level. Hoping to get the traction battery replaced under TOYOTA warranty AND without shipping the car.

The GOM is based on your driving efficiency. The Tony test erases the driving history which is why the GOM reads higher afterwards. Since you do mostly fast freeway driving, your GOM readings sound about right for a battery this age. The battery naturally degrades as it ages, so this is normal and not a warranty issue. Compared to LEAF batteries, these are aging quite gracefully, actually.