ALL POSTS - 12-volt battery replacement

z3scot said:

I checked my battery voltage with voltage meter in the lighter socket.
In the morning before starting it was 12.0 volts. According to the battery meter that is down to 50%.
Car is 20 months old. So looks like I need a new battery.

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I find that my cigarette lighter voltage meter reads about 0.2 - 0.3 V lower than a voltmeter across the battery terminals. I see even higher voltage on the batter terminals if I disconnect one of the leads. There may be more life in your battery than you think - you need to measure the true open-circuit voltage.

The dealer checked the battery with an official load tester, and it tested OK.
He showed me the results, it showed the battery was good (12.2 Volts, CCA was higher than min) but needed to be recharged. I told him it had been recharging for 40 min on the way to work, and should be fully charged. They need the battery the battery to show bad on the tester to replace it under warranty.

What is the battery failure symptoms of impeding doom? Or is everybody just replacing the batteries because they are worried that the car won't power up one day? If the battery was low when driving it seems that the DC-DC power from the traction battery would keep the vehicle going. Has anybody had the vehicle quit because of a bad battery?

-- Scott

CCA doesn't apply... 12.2 V is a bad battery.

i have a battery maintainer i hook up whenever the car is going to be left more than a couple days without running it. Whenever i hook it up, i always see that it charges the battery.

i just checked, mine was at 12.5Volts (at the battery terminals while attached to the car) and i know it was fully charged up today. (I had the car "on" for at least an hour today).

Unloaded, it will be higher than that.

My dealer just informed me that my 12 volt battery is bad. It will be 3 years the 21st of this month. I've never had an OEM battery go bad in that short of a time.

Bassman said:

My dealer just informed me that my 12 volt battery is bad. It will be 3 years the 21st of this month. I've never had an OEM battery go bad in that short of a time.

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Congratulations!!! That's pretty good for any modern day EV with Telematics (the battery sits a lot of the time not being fully charged). The worst thing to do to a 12 V lead acid battery is to not have it fully charged. That means 12.7 volts.

If your car is three years old and has not had the original battery replaced, I recommend doing that now .

Tony, are these batteries failing because there something different about the way the EV uses/charges the 12v battery than ICE cars (other than the alternator, I mean)? I notice my windows slow down when I turn off the car (just like ICE), so it seems like the battery is supported when on/ready. Why do you suggest a deep cycle type battery?

JDP said:

Tony, are these batteries failing because there something different about the way the EV uses/charges the 12v battery than ICE cars (other than the alternator, I mean)? I notice my windows slow down when I turn off the car (just like ICE), so it seems like the battery is supported when on/ready. Why do you suggest a deep cycle type battery?

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The battery gets deep cycled by the BMS and telematics, which operate while the car is off.

You do not require "cold cranking", so deep cycle is perfect.

The e-Golf comes with an AGM battery, which I thought was interesting, so I did a quick search and Bosch sells a Group 35 AGM battery for around the same price as a Yellow Top. The Bosch claims 53Ah capacity and 4 year warranty while the Yellow Top claims 48Ah and 3 year warranty.

The Bosch battery I saw is carried locally at Pep Boys.

Will an AGM battery work in the RAV4? I thought they required a different charging system.

Michael Bornstein said:

Will an AGM battery work in the RAV4? I thought they required a different charging system.

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I tried replacing SLA with AGM (from a UPS) on my 48 Volt solar system and it ended up warping the lead plates after 3 years.

I think this link has a lot of useful information
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/absorbent_glass_mat_agm

As with all gelled and sealed units, AGM batteries are sensitive to overcharging. These batteries can be charged to 2.40V/cell (and higher) without problem; however, the float charge should be reduced to between 2.25 and 2.30V/cell (summer temperatures may require lower voltages). Automotive charging systems for flooded lead acid often have a fixed float voltage setting of 14.40V (2.40V/cell), and a direct replacement with a sealed unit could spell trouble by exposing the battery to undue overcharge on a long drive. (See BU-403: Charging Lead Acid.)

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I have seen the rav4 converter take the battery voltage up to 14.7 volts (measured at the cigarette lighter)
I would say that is asking for troubles.
I also think that the "short" battery life of our originals batteries are due to overcharging.
I have a fairly recent pickup 6 years old, and it still has the original battery (35k miles). I has all kinds of "phone home" electronics that keeps drawing power 24/7
I did put a 1.5watt solar charger on the dash to keep the battery a float.
But measuring the charging voltage, i've never seen it go beyond 14.2V

I'm not sure the 14.7 volts will be a problem. According the Optima website the batteries can be charged at voltage up to 15 volts. See the text below:

Charging
OPTIMA® YELLOWTOP® Charging Information

The following charging methods are recommended to ensure a long battery life. Always use a voltage-regulated charger, with voltage limits set as described below.

YELLOWTOP® Type: D51 & D51R - D35 – DS46B24R - D75/25 - D34 – D34/78 - D27F
These batteries are dual-purpose. They are designed for engine start and cyclic applications and for use in vehicles with large accessory loads.
Recommended charging information:

Alternator:

13.65 to 15.0 volts, no amperage limit.

Battery Charger:

13.8 to 15.0 volts, 10 amps maximum, approximately for 6-12 hours.

Cyclic Applications:

14.7 volts, no current limit as long as battery temperature remains below 125°F (51.7°C). When current falls below 1 amp, finish with 2 amp constant current for 1 hour.

Rapid Recharge:

Maximum voltage 15.6 volts (regulated), no current limit as long as battery temperature remains below 125°F (51.7°C). Charge until current drops below 1 amp.

Float Charge:

13.2 to 13.8 volts, 1 amp maximum current, time indefinite (at lower voltage).

Here's the URL.

http://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/support/battery-care/charging/

swogee said:

I'm not sure the 14.7 volts will be a problem. According the Optima website the batteries can be charged at voltage up to 15 volts.

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_I_ think the 14.7 volt is killing the factory fitted SLA battery ;-)

miimura said:

The e-Golf comes with an AGM battery, which I thought was interesting, so I did a quick search and Bosch sells a Group 35 AGM battery for around the same price as a Yellow Top. The Bosch claims 53Ah capacity and 4 year warranty while the Yellow Top claims 48Ah and 3 year warranty.

The Bosch battery I saw is carried locally at Pep Boys.

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This looks good. I also see Sears has a Platinum Series (AGM) in group 35. More cranking amps(850 vs 650) and more weight(50 vs 35 for Bosch). RC is 100 or 130 but no amp/hrs listed.
Although not a deep cycle it does seem to have more power and a good warranty.

Sears Platinum 35

smkettner said:

miimura said:

The e-Golf comes with an AGM battery, which I thought was interesting, so I did a quick search and Bosch sells a Group 35 AGM battery for around the same price as a Yellow Top. The Bosch claims 53Ah capacity and 4 year warranty while the Yellow Top claims 48Ah and 3 year warranty.

The Bosch battery I saw is carried locally at Pep Boys.

Click to expand...

This looks good. I also see Sears has a Platinum Series (AGM) in group 35. More cranking amps(850 vs 650) and more weight(50 vs 35 for Bosch). RC is 100 or 130 but no amp/hrs listed.
Although not a deep cycle it does seem to have more power and a good warranty.

Sears Platinum 35

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EnerSys Signs Multi-Year Contract to Provide Sears Holdings With Long-Life DieHard(R) Platinum BatteriesREADING, Pa. and HOFFMAN ESTATES, Ill., Feb. 27 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- EnerSys (NYSE: ENS), the world's largest manufacturer, marketer and distributor of industrial batteries, today announced it has signed a multi- year contract with Sears Holdings (Nasdaq: SHLD) to manufacture and supply Sears with a newly categorized DieHard Platinum branded battery for aftermarket automotive and marine applications. DieHard is America's most preferred automotive battery, among those stating a preference.

Beginning in March, 2007, Sears Auto Centers will be the exclusive distribution channel for DieHard Platinum batteries. "By working with EnerSys on the new DieHard Platinum battery, we continue the legacy of innovation that was established with the original DieHard battery 40 years ago," said Rick Sawyer, vice president/general merchandise manager of Sears Auto Centers. "We're confident this new battery will live up to the DieHard brand name and that users will be pleased with its performance. These premium-grade batteries are designed for a longer life than traditional batteries, offer increased levels of safe operation, can withstand extreme heat and cold, and are durable for consumer automotive/marine applications. The DieHard Platinum battery will offer proven vibration resistance to the consumer market.
The new DieHard Platinum batteries have up to 28% more Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) than comparatively sized spiral Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries providing much more starting power to automobiles and boats, along with unmatched reserved capacity. These thin-plate pure-lead batteries will carry DieHard batteries' best-ever, free replacement warranty. See your local Sears store for written warranty details.

"We're thrilled to provide this high-end, durable DieHard Platinum version to consumers," said John Craig, chairman, president and chief executive officer of EnerSys. "This partnership represents a great opportunity for more users to benefit from our pure-lead technology products."

The DieHard Platinum batteries are manufactured in EnerSys' U.S. manufacturing facility in Warrensburg, Mo, where the first DieHard Platinum came off the production line today. They have a valve-regulated design that allows them to be installed in any orientation, except inverted, without spilling and the U.S. Department of Transportation has classified them as non- spillable for safe shipping.

For more information, contact Richard Zuidema, Executive Vice President, EnerSys, P.O. Box 14145, Reading, PA 19612-4145. Tel: 800/538-3627; Web site: EnerSys Home.

This is a post that I stole...

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php?topic=77384.0;wap2

jimbo53188:
Your Question: Why is the Odyssey better than Optima and is it worth the cost difference?


When comparing Optima to an Odyssey, you are comparing a 10 year old technology to a brand new one. To be more specific, the parent company (Enersys) invented and has owned both products. They owned the Optima technology and plant and finally sold off Optima over ten years ago to move on to creating Odyssey. The older spiral product and technology was abandoned because of the new technology which is now Hawker, trolling thunder, and now Odyssey.

Specifics:

Warranty
4 year full replacement vs. 1.5 year prorated

1 to 2 psi vs. 6-8psi bunsen valves
lower psi still vent while charging and this alone can contribute to failure as well as gassing

pure virgin lead vs. recycled lead
pure lead lasts longer

old spiral agm vs. thin plate
spiral equals less usable space, less reserve, less shock and vibration ability

lower resistance
charges faster, puts out higher cranking amps, contributes to longer life

more lead in the same physical size
The last one here is critical for the troll motor application. The amount of lead in a battery is the contributing factor when determining reserve capacity, or the ability to run electronics, pumps, lights, or a troll motor. Look at the physical weight of a battery compared to the same group size of a competing battery. For example.

Optima grp 24 weighs 38 lbs (34M) and an Odyssey grp 24 weighs 55 lbs (1500T).
Optima grp 31 weighs 59lbs D31M and an Odyssey grp 31 weighs 78lbs (2150)

Flooded vs. AGM (a personal choice)

Flooded product is less expensive and lasts a couple of years. The good thing about it is it is cheap. The bad thing is you have to add water, you have to deal with corrosion, and you have to replace every couple of years. There are reasons why they do not last long. By design they calcify faster because they loose charge faster. This is an issue because it leads to internal failure. The more calcification the more resistance, the more resistance the more heat and finally failure. By keeping them on an onboard trickle charger you have serious gassing issues and drying out concerns unless you constantly maintain them. Most manufactures of flooded product use recycled lead with calcium and antimony which contribute to the internal failure of the product. It makes life shorter, but it makes manufacturing cheaper. That is why you can save money and buy a 50 dollar grp 24. I wanted to get away from all of that flooded maintenance. If you do go the flooded route buy the heaviest one you can find in the size you like because weight equals reserve capacity.

AGM is more expensive, it lasts longer, and can be a set it and forget it solution for many years. The bad thing is the initial cost and there are a lot of garbage AGM’s out in the market. Some AGM's dry out in the first couple of years because of poor bunsen valve technology. Some have little lead and are not good for reserve capacity. Some claim to be AGM and are a flooded/AGM product. A Odyssey AGM has a service life of 6 to 10 years. They are maintenance free and can be left on an automatic charger like a ProMariner for the life of the battery. No worries about gassing or drying out. Look at the warranty of the product you are going to buy. Most of the Odyssey batteries have a 4 year full replacement.

I spent some time putting this together and I really enjoy discussing batteries. I tried to just give the facts, but I am an Odyssey fan and have one in everything I own that takes a battery.



( reply from my battery supplier )

Checked the Odyssey website, and they do not list a battery for the RAV4 EV. They do make a size 35:

http://shop.odysseybattery.com/p/35-pc1400t?referring_products=%7Cd368d9fd0f457b4aaeeec257e4f3b5d4

but it sells for $100 more than the Optima:

http://www.amazon.com/Optima-Batteries-8040-218-YellowTop-Purpose/dp/B000MSDKMA/?tag=myelecarfor-20&

At three plus years, my battery is still going strong. So the questions that are plaguing me are:

Should I replace my battery that so far seems good,

Should I get an AGM battery that many people seem to say will be damaged by the battery charger in the RAV?

Will Optima or Odyssey honor a warranty when they themselves do not recommend using their product in the RAV EV?

Changed to the Interstate Group 24F from Costco. It's bigger than the OEM Group 35, but fits the holder better. Cost was $93. Has a 42 month full replacement warranty.

That's what I was thinking of just replacing the battery with one from Costco. $95 bucks and in 3-4 years replace again. Makes more sense that buying a $150-200 battery and have to replace it in 5-8 years.

I just bought the Costco battery. Since the dealer did a bogus battery test with their tester, (battery is fine)I asked what the criteria is at Costco for a replacement under warranty. They told me they replace the battery (not prorated) in the warranty period if the customer requests it.
That sold me since the 42 month warranty is longer than the Optima battery at almost half the price.
The Costco battery fits fine, is heavier and bigger than the stock one.

I was parked at the airport for a week. I checked the battery voltage before starting, it was the same voltage as it was when I parked.

The new battery has much less voltage sag when powering the car from off - aux - ready.

By the way, apparently the car was doing cabin heating/cooling even though it wasn't plugged in. The display showed it had finished the climate cycle that morning.

~~ Scott