Toyota Rav4 EV Forum

It is currently Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:11 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 344 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 35  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: RavCharge, a solution to charge timer and entune woes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1756
Location: Los Altos, CA
fooljoe wrote:
miimura wrote:
BTW, what does RavCharge do when it's time for a timer event and the car is not plugged in? Does it know that and skip the event? I'm just wondering about the extraneous Entune e-mails mentioned above.
I addressed that question here. Unlike the car's built-in timer, the information that RavCharge has about whether the car is plugged in is only as good as the last update. I could set RavCharge to do a status update some time before a scheduled charge, but then there'd be some risk of the car getting plugged in between the status update and the timer event, or the status update not completing and a charge being skipped because of incorrect information about plug status.

Since my #1 goal is 100% activation of scheduled charges, for now RavCharge just goes ahead and sends the command (and sends it a lot), regardless of what information it has about the car being plugged in or not. So you probably would get a number of nuisance emails from Entune if you didn't plug in and had a timer set. If you want to avoid this you could just go to RavCharge on your phone and turn the timer off for the day. Changing the timer settings via RavCharge is much less painful than having to go out to your car and deal with its terrible interface.

Now that I think about this last part, maybe a cool feature would be a "skip the next charge" button that turns the timer off for a night but then automatically turns it back on so you don't have to remember to...

EDIT: Now that I think about this some more, maybe the risk isn't really that high, and it'd be nice to avoid hammering Entune with charge start requests when people are intentionally unplugged (not to mention avoiding all those "charge failure" emails). I'm working on implementing a "Plug check" option for the charge timers now.

If you choose this option, RavCharge will do a status update immediately before sending a charge start command. If the update fails, it'll go ahead and try to start charging anyway. If the update succeeds, it'll only send the charge start command if it has confirmed that you're plugged in and not already charging. Due to the time required for a status update to go through, charges will probably start a few minutes after the time you specify if you select this option. I'll test it on my car tonight and probably make it live tomorrow.
The other thing you could do is send your own e-mail that says the RavCharge event was skipped because the car was unplugged.

_________________
2012 Shoreline Blue #1462 w/JdeMO | 2018 Tesla Model 3 LR | 4.32kW Motech/Enphase PV Solar + 2x Powerwall 2 AC| Leviton EVB40 40A & Jesla Home Charging | 2015 e-Golf LE (returned)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: RavCharge, a solution to charge timer and entune woes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:20 am
Posts: 694
Location: Seal Beach, CA
So if you haven't already noticed, I have implemented a new "Plug check" option for charge timers that lets you specify whether you want to do a status update to confirm that the car is plugged in and not already charging before sending the command to start a charge. If you often leave your car unplugged but have a RavCharge timer set and want to avoid getting lots of nuisance emails from entune then you should use this option. In fact down the road I might just make this the default behavior.

While I was at it, I also modified the status update feature so that it automatically updates the info on the page without requiring the additional refresh step.

miimura wrote:
The other thing you could do is send your own e-mail that says the RavCharge event was skipped because the car was unplugged.
Yeah, I like this idea, and you'll see that adding email or SMS notifications is on my original "to-do" list from the first post. I just want to give people the option to receive notifications or not (and in what form), so I plan on building a new "settings" area to handle this, and also for other options like inputting your estimated battery degradation.

_________________
ImageRavCharge.com | 2012 Classic Silver | 2011 Leaf | Clipper Creek CS-60 | 40 amp openEVSE | 3.84kw PV


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: RavCharge, a solution to charge timer and entune woes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:01 pm 
Offline
Site Moderator

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:50 am
Posts: 1213
Location: San Jose, CA
I checked my emails this morning after RavCharge was set to do a scheduled charge last night at midnight with my car unplugged, and I received no nuissance emails like was happening before. Success!

Joe, I concur with "miimura", sending an email when RavCharge "skips" a scheduled charge to notify you the car was not plugged in, is yet another good suggestion to further enhance your outstanding web app.

_________________
Owner of 2012 Classic Silver RAV4 EV, 2012 Silver VOLT & 2008 Red C6 Z06
EMW JuiceBox Basic (fully optioned & customized) EVSE L2 charging station
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: RavCharge, a solution to charge timer and entune woes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:04 pm
Posts: 117
Location: Simi Valley, CA
fooljoe wrote:
mhkp wrote:
Well, I thought of that and moved my departure time from 6 am to 7 am. I often charge to Extended but it never takes more than 4 hours or so with my Leviton. I'll set my departure to 8am and see what happens.
I confirmed in the RavCharge server logs that mhkp's early charge was not commanded by RavCharge. Dsinned's comment is spot-on: With a low starting SOC and/or extended charge set (and possibly a <40 amp EVSE, if applicable), it's not at all unexpected that the car's weird timer would start the charge before midnight.

This sort of thing is precisely the reason for RavCharge in the first place, not something caused by it!


I moved my departure time to 9 am and RavCharge started charging at 1:01 am (timer set for 1am) SOC charge was very low (VLB) and set to extended charge.

_________________
VIN#1708
Delivery: July 22, 2013
Mileage: 38,500+
EVSE: Leviton
Color: White
Town: Simi Valley


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: RavCharge, a solution to charge timer and entune woes
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4047
Location: San Diego
I just did a 100% extended charge and the app shows 35kWh, instead of 41.8kWh.

Also, can we change the 80% charge to 41.8kWh * 80% ? (33.44kWh)

_________________
Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: RavCharge, a solution to charge timer and entune woes
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:03 pm 
Offline
Site Moderator

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:50 am
Posts: 1213
Location: San Jose, CA
Last night my RavCharge scheduled charge at 12:01am was right on time (actual start two minutes later), and I received two successful "charge start" email notifications one minute apart accordingly.

I am watching my home energy monitoring system right now to verify a 27 minute long topping charge is about to start right around 08:30am, which should be completed at 08:57am. My vehicles' departure time is still set for 08:50am.

. . . Okay, the topping charge started as expected just now at 08:31am. The Voltage/Current reading at my Leviton charging station is 238Vac and 3.0A (i.e. 714 Watts total output). The amber "Charging" LED is flashing on the front panel of the charging station, but the dual amber LEDs above the charge port connector on the car are both off. I can clearly hear a "buzzing noise" coming from the car, which is normal during ANY charging operation.

. . . Okay, just now (08:57am) the topping charge completed as expected. The buzzing has stopped and no more blinking amber LED at the Leviton charging station, and AC current now reads zero.

. . . Then, I unplugged (08:58am), at which point I received one final and totally bogus email notifications saying I just had a "Charge interruption". Of course, this last email was through no fault of RavCharge.

After completion of all charging, both a normal bulk last night after midnight, and belated topping off just now before 9am, the GoM in my car now indicates "100" miles. My running average on the center console still indicates "3.2" mi/kWh. This was the average after the past week of driving the car.

Perhaps Tony's suggestion in the previous post is quite valid. Now my car is fully prepared for my wife's next very short drive later this afternoon and more of the same all next week.

This has been my least troublesome overnight charge to date!

Thank you FoolJoe!!!

_________________
Owner of 2012 Classic Silver RAV4 EV, 2012 Silver VOLT & 2008 Red C6 Z06
EMW JuiceBox Basic (fully optioned & customized) EVSE L2 charging station
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: RavCharge, a solution to charge timer and entune woes
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:20 am
Posts: 694
Location: Seal Beach, CA
TonyWilliams wrote:
I just did a 100% extended charge and the app shows 35kWh, instead of 41.8kWh.
Yeah, we discussed this a few pages back in the thread. The problem is the SOC information I get from entune goes from 0-100, where 100 represents a full normal charge. The only thing that varies when you're in the range between an extended charge and normal charge is the GOM range, and I'm not excited about the idea of trying to make any sense of that.

I do know whether the car is in extended mode or not, but that applies to the next charge, it doesn't say anything about whether the previous charge was extended. I suppose I could implement some sort of continuous monitoring of each user's car and maintain a record of whether the last charge was extended or not, and so on, but that would be pretty involved. I wouldn't rule it out, but it's not something that I could just throw in quickly. So for now just take the "35kwh" displayed as 35+ if you're in extended mode.
TonyWilliams wrote:
Also, can we change the 80% charge to 41.8kWh * 80% ? (33.44kWh)
You mentioned this before too, but I don't know where this assumption comes from. I've been logging some data for my car for a few days and the 35kwh figure seems to be pretty accurate. For example, a couple days ago I drove 64.7 miles with the dash showing 3.9m/kwh, for an indicated consumption of 16.6kwh. The SOC at the end of the day was 53%, which would indicate a 100% charge of 35.3kwh. Of course there are rounding errors, and the accuracy of the entune SOC data and the dash efficiency data are all up for debate, so lots of further study is needed here.

So for now I'll just stick with the published 35kwh number, but I'll be giving you the option to enter a degradation factor that you can adjust to arrive at whatever assumption you want to map to a "100%" normal charge. I suggest everyone log similar data as I've been collecting so you can determine what your degradation factor would be. Also I'm really curious what the "0%" of the entune SOC scale really corresponds to, as I don't make a habit of driving down into that territory, so if anybody gets down there please report back!

_________________
ImageRavCharge.com | 2012 Classic Silver | 2011 Leaf | Clipper Creek CS-60 | 40 amp openEVSE | 3.84kw PV


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: RavCharge, a solution to charge timer and entune woes
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:23 pm 
Offline
Site Moderator

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:50 am
Posts: 1213
Location: San Jose, CA
Joe, if you were to implement another "slider bar" to adjust the degradation factor as a variable, similar to what you did already for inputting the average miles driven per kWh, I think this would work quite well in RavCharger. 100% can be the default which would apply to all cars still fairly new, or with minimal mileage. To resolve any apparent inaccuracies in the range calculation, each user of RavCharger can change the battery capacity setting to whatever they see fit.

Using the results from RavCharger after doing a normal charge, I did a simple calculation on my own car. I applied a multiplier, representing the "degradation factor", to full normal (useable) battery capacity, assuming 33.44kWh when new. I mulitiplied by 0.96, representing -4% of lost useable battery capacity. This seems rather high, but it improved RavCharger's prediction of my estimated range to be in closer agreement with the GoM based on the running average miles/kWh readings in the car.

I would like to believe the total degradation of my battery will not exceed -20% in five years, or -40% in ten years, but I really have no idea.

My car is currently almost 11 months old, always parked outdoors, recharged ~50 times, with only ~4200 miles on the odo. I think my GoM calibration is overly conservative, by about 0.2mi/kWh. Either that, or my battery degradation is even more than expected at this point in time. Hopefully this does not necessarily mean I will lose nearly as much useable capacity over all the years I own the car. I think a total degradation loss of 20% in ten years (which in my case, may correspond to total miles driven of maybe 50,000).

Furthermore, I doubt that battery degradation has a linear relationship to either miles driven or the service life of the car. I'm sure the actual rate of degradation overall, is far more complicated to determine and each battery is uniquely different.

To be sure, there are many other factors that determine battery degradation; temperature, humidity, no. of discharge - recharging cycles, "rates" of discharge - charging current, total time in operation including storage, etc. Most modern Pb-acid 12VDC car batteries have a useful life of well under 10 years, but are subject to radical swings in temperature, especially while in storage, which can be very detrimental to life expectancy. Li-ion cells may have considerably longer life, with active thermal management, and that are never allowed to fully discharge or recharge completely during their lifetime.

Another member here ("Kohler") is doing an experiment to help determine a typical RAV4 EV's Li-ion cell's degradation in terms of discharge/recharging cycles. I believe he is trying to simulate 100,000 miles of operation in the car. After he has completed testing, perhaps you could apply whatever results he obtains as a "fixed" amount of degradation per mileage on the car, and even simpler approach in RavCharge. So far, in Kohler's simulation testing, I think he has observed a rate of degradation to be actually quite low.

Again, a "slider bar" with min/max limits within reason (?? to 100%), is probably the best and all you can do.

_________________
Owner of 2012 Classic Silver RAV4 EV, 2012 Silver VOLT & 2008 Red C6 Z06
EMW JuiceBox Basic (fully optioned & customized) EVSE L2 charging station
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: RavCharge, a solution to charge timer and entune woes
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4047
Location: San Diego
fooljoe wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
Also, can we change the 80% charge to 41.8kWh * 80% ? (33.44kWh)
You mentioned this before too, but I don't know where this assumption comes from...

So for now I'll just stick with the published 35kwh number, but I'll be giving you the option to enter a degradation factor that you can adjust to arrive at whatever assumption you want to map to a "100%" normal charge.


It's from driving from 80% charge to Turtle, observing the miles traveled divided by economy, and getting about 33.x kWh.

The same rounding error issues apply, so I'll stipulate that it could be between 33.44 and 35 for an 80% charge. Plus, it didn't drive to shutdown which would add some tiny amount more energy (but very unlikely 1.56kWh usable).

Anyhoo, if I still own my car next week, we need to get active in cracking the codes on this car. This is nutty fighting it.

_________________
Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: RavCharge, a solution to charge timer and entune woes
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:20 am
Posts: 694
Location: Seal Beach, CA
Dsinned wrote:
This seems rather high, but it improved RavCharger's prediction of my estimated range to be in closer agreement with the GoM based on the running average miles/kWh readings in the car.
If you want to estimate your own degradation/full charge usable kwh, I would completely ignore the GOM number. Just reset your trip meter and efficiency meter after a normal charge, then note the average efficiency (e), miles driven (m), and RavCharge SOC% (c) before you charge again. Then m/e/(1-c) should give you what your usable kwh at 100% SOC is. There is the additional rub that the 0% displayed by RavCharge probably corresponds to some level of charge that's not really 0, which would complicate the calculation a bit. It could be shutdown, or it could be turtle, or it could be "Lo", or whatever. I haven't tested it, but if anyone has please chime in!

Of course there's lots of potential for error/variation with this calculation, so the more times you can repeat this process, the better. Take the average over as many such logs as you care to do, and you'll have a decent idea of what your number is. But again, don't put any stock in the GOM - it's a complete mystery how it's calculated. I've seen my GOM after a full charge drop about 20 miles from one day to the next, even when the day before I drove well above my long-term average miles/kwh. :roll:

Dsinned wrote:
Furthermore, I doubt that battery degradation has a linear relationship to either miles driven or the service life of the car. I'm sure the actual rate of degradation overall, is far more complicated to determine and each battery is uniquely different.
Yup, I'm not even going to try to touch that. There no way to see what your odometer or charge cycles are from entune data anyway.

Dsinned wrote:
Again, a "slider bar" with min/max limits within reason (?? to 100%), is probably the best and all you can do.
Yeah, that's the plan. I'll probably just go with a slider to enter the 100% usable kwh number directly (~20-35 I guess) rather than a percentage. I just took the weekend off from coding, but I'll get to it. ;)

TonyWilliams wrote:
Anyhoo, if I still own my car next week, we need to get active in cracking the codes on this car. This is nutty fighting it.
There's a ton of guesswork here, which is why I haven't prioritized development of the whole range estimator part of RavCharge, even though it does seem to engender the most discussion. I think it is nice that seeing the raw entune data allows RavCharge to display an actual %SOC rather than just the 16 bars the car gives or the pretty but useless picture of a battery that the entune app gives, but we definitely need lots of testing to figure out what exactly these numbers map to as far as usable kwh.

My #1 goal with RavCharge is getting a reliable charging timer working. I guess it's a good thing that there's not as much discussion about that - it just works. :D

_________________
ImageRavCharge.com | 2012 Classic Silver | 2011 Leaf | Clipper Creek CS-60 | 40 amp openEVSE | 3.84kw PV


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 344 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 35  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
© Toyota Rav4 EV Forum - part of the MyElectricCarForums.com Group